Fire Fire Fire

[Brian]

see picture.........Looks like it could be 12" high or more. MitchI reckon about 10 inches, certainly not what I would like to see a low hour pilot flying. A saving grace mayby, the stab being in the airflow although I have no idea how big it is. If that gyro has lightweight rotors, its not good ! Thats my guess for the day.The stab on Tsemblers RAF is enourmous and it apparently, makes the RAF feel very solid

[Tsemler]

Hi Brian, another bloke and sooty are the ones that swapped machines, I was just helping the new owner find a replacement stab since the last one fell off while mustering. Thanks to PB he should have one here by the end of this week of next week. Paul has also been helping him with ideas to make it have a better thrustline.

[Greg Mitchell]

OK now I"m confused Brian.I dont have all the answers, who does?I only quoted what was written, I didn"t write it.There have been questions raised over the validity of the Glasgow reportAnyways, I think you"ll find I was a little lenient with the 12" or more.Anyway I"m outta here, losing to many mates to this debate, figuratively speeking and literally.

[Brian]

Hi Brian, another bloke and sooty are the ones that swapped machines, I was just helping the new owner find a replacement stab since the last one fell off while mustering. Thanks to PB he should have one here by the end of this week of next week. Paul has also been helping him with ideas to make it have a better thrustline.

[asra]

Ok you blokes.The reason for my post is to show that even a simple small single place machine such as this with its thrust line through the pilots chest can be very deceiving. If you look at the pics you will see just how high a thrust line it has. This is due to many factors example.1) up wards offset belt drive reduction unit2) Short mast3) Short moment arm on tail feathers4) Small HS (No neg AofA)5) Low mount heavy EA81ALL THESE THING CONTRIBUTE TO IT BEING A HTL machine.The new owner was going to solo in it but quickly changed his mind once he viewed the hang/ tiltback test results. he is know reconfiguring it to achieve a closer and smaller thrust line offset. I was very happy with his decision, and it only happend due to ASRA"s latest registration requirements.This is exactly what ASRA are trying to achieve. To enable owners to better understand the configuration of there machines and help new prospective pilots and owners, understand what they are about to buy or fly.Regards SamL...........

[asra]

Brian, glad you enjoyed your MT03 flight the other day and interested in you comments.The two pilots who own that machine flew trikes before "seeing the light". They did about 12 hours with me in that gyro before solo without a hint of trouble with PIO etc.You are quite right in saying the MT feels quite stable and solid,this is entirely due to the large airfoil shaped HS 50/50 prop/free stream air. I"m not sure what the COG offset is on an MT but I would imagine at gross weight 6 inches or more.We will find out soon.Would it "bunt over" in the right conditions?,probably.It would have been good to have a CLT machine for you to hop straight into as you would have seen the even greater difference having the TL that bit lower.Someone mentioned why Magni"s seem stable and are accepted by the British CAA. I have about 10 hours in two types and yes at speed they do feel solid. The offset in a tandem is around 10 inches.They have a powerful HS but only at a decent speed.BUT!! they also have a very nose heavy rotor that resists cyclic pitch changes and it may be possible the airframe couldn"t outrun the rotor causing a "buntover".The jury is still out on that one but needless to say it hasn"t happened yet.Trent you mentioned a "Well set up HTL machine". It doest matter whether its been built by Myself,Rosco, or Jack the Ripper, if its HTL with no stabilizing force (large HS) counteracting the propeller torque above the COG then the result is going to be the same with the right pilot input or atmospheric upset.

[louww]

Murray, the way you phrased it and related this ".....built by Myself,Roscoe or Jack the Ripper, if its...." Very intriguing!!

[asra]

Mmmmm, that phrase can possibly be taken two ways but I meant it as three different people.I have added a commer after Rosco.You get my point.

[Brian]

OK now I"m confused Brian.I dont have all the answers, who does?I only quoted what was written, I didn"t write it.There have been questions raised over the validity of the Glasgow reportAnyways, I think you"ll find I was a little lenient with the 12" or more.Anyway I"m outta here, losing to many mates to this debate, figuratively speeking and literally.I think I lost you there somewhere Mitch. Give me a ring one night after dark when you have some time. Too many distracting things happening here, Rosie"s baking Yo yo"s of diferent mixtures to taste test and TNT are still carting pre combustion chambers all over Ozz and the solar man is arriving ...............and did I mention the rain.....

[Brian]

Thanks Murray, yes, I enjoyed flying the MTO particualrly after all the reading /asking questions etc, I had something to be able to gauge /compare with and I"m looking forward to flying the Kruza and a clt /near clt single place to further my knowledge.Rotors and their affect [stabalizing /destabalizng ] is interesting me and I can see

[Tim]

Right, now I have your attention. With ASRA"s survery, we do 2 tests, the hang test and the balance test, now, its been put to me by someone who I wont name but has a lot of knowledge that the

[Brian]

I guess I have come into this discussion a bit late.Any object of fixed mass has only one centre of mass (gravity). If it is hung from anywhere, the vertical line passing through the hanging point will also pass through that centre of gravity.If it is balanced from any part, the vertical line from where it is balanced also passes through the centre of gravity (if it didn’t, the machine would not balance and would topple)If the axle were to be moved further forward or back, the balance angle would then change such that the line would still pass through the same C of G.The only slight variation would be allowance for shifting the weight of the axle itself, but this would be minor and probably insignificant in the final result.Hi Tim, great to see you on the forum ! Its never too late to have

[aussie_paul]

Hi Tim, great to see you on the forum ! Its never too late to have

[Brian]

I"m not getting too excited PB, my technical know how wouldnt make for many pages of a book

[asra]

So you think your gyro is hard to COG test...