Work'n gyros.

[Brian]

Cetainly sounds encouraging, my first thoughts are that legalization could bring up a whole new lot of problems but thats being negative so I guess we have to have cofidence that ASRA will continue with their on going good work.You never know how far you can go, till you get there !

[asra]

LLA, about time! Go for broke

[asra]

Why is ASRA spending all this time ,expenses etc etc to get low leval flying approved, just to assist a handful of pilots to chase cows, and get paid for it. Now don't get me wrong here, I'm not against it, but why not a broader agenda, ie using your gyro for anything that someone wants to pay you for, for the services of. Hell I can think of a multitude of uses for a good gyro and pilot that should be legal, and income earning too.I know that a couple of govt depts up here, would love to engage a gyro to do a lot of different tasks, but because of the laws, they are unable to contract a gyro. I have had to tell them I cannot assist them, for that very reason. I can assure you, they were quite surprised etc.There has been a couple of times I have helped them out, and it was done as unpaid, and the feedback was unreal.So how about a more encompassing legalisation of a working gyro, it's currently too specificly aimed. This approach would help the whole lot of us, not a few. It requires the same amount of ASRA and gets a better result.Russ....A1014 NT....gods country

[asra]

"it's currently too specificly aimed."Who said?LlewellaA sceptic is a person who, when he sees the handwriting on the wall, claims it is a forgery.

[asra]

Well, well, I'll withdraw the too specific bit eh. There's hope for all maybe, let's hope.[]These noisey little critters have a huge potential, the yanks know that real well, they use them for untold uses, yea govt, police , forestry, etc etcKeep up the good workjust my view......Russ....A1014 NT....gods country

[asra]

G,day.I think, a commercial Gyro activity involves more than just beinga good Gyro pilot !A couple of ferinstances: How many Non GA Gyro pilots Know how tooperate within controled airspace and I mean beyond the airport boundary. yeh but Gyro,s arent allowed in controlled airspce. Down the track,if they really go commercial, they will.Next: Crop spraying.Do these would be operators Know the rules that apply there ?Re: catchment area's, Hazardous or obnoxious material, how far fromschools,playgrounds or populated areas etc.Around Mackay I have seen Agplanes spraying inside controlledairspace. My drive from me ouse to town is about 48Km, all withincontrolled airspace and cane crops are within a few hundred metersof the airport.Being able to fly legally at low level wont make us ( I havent gota Gyro licence yet but I am workin on it ) a Commercial Pilot,It will just mean that we can legally fly lower.Tests and endorsements, I'm afraid will be the only way to go.You blokes up in the Territory probably wont like that but you fella's dont live in the real world, you just live where we wouldall like to be !I wont upset Birdy by talking about Commercial insurance againbut it will play a big part in determining an operators overheadsif it isn't done properly.Another thing to expect down the track is the fact that we wont have it all to ourselves. By that I mean that once the helicopter operators discover Commercial Gyro's, do you think that they willjust say "oh pooh" and let us get on with it ?Most of these guys already have a Commercial Licence to boast aboutand I am quite sure they will scramble to become good Gyro Pilots !Next Subject. How many of you Gyro builders have thought about designing purposebuilt commercial gyro's ? I dont mean Groen Hawks but affordableJittnies that will get the job done. By affordable I mean, by takingsome of the work from the Helo's and giving the Hirer value forMoney.You might think that all this is a long way down the track but Idont think so. When the bigger operators take the blinkers offand see the real potential of Gyro's, they will become a powerfullobby !It sounds to me as tho ASRA is on the ball and heading in the right direction,so I am lookin forward to spendin me money. Cheers.Safe flying.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[asra]

It's great to see the support being expressed in this thread for the Board's efforts and initiatives, but please don't get too carried away with the possibilities. Let's face it we, and for that matter CASA can only do so much.Olbod raises very signifigant questions. It is vital that Gyro Pilots accept that to enjoy increased privelidges we must accept increased responsibilities, our members encompass a very wide range of Airmanship. We have people who just want to fly and forget about all that other "rubbish", up to people who see there rightfull place as a respected part of the aviation community. Many may not be aware of the extra privelidges available on application to CASA for an "Instrument" allowing flight into licensed aerodromes and to 5000'asl. Already I understand some restriction has been applied to the granting of this due to the activities of a certain member.Let's use peer group pressure to encourage compliance with our Ops Manual and good Airmanship to ensure progress continues to be made.The stupidity of a small number can very easily affect the rest of us.John EvansThink logically and do things well, think laterally and do things better.

[asra]

John......I for one have CASA approval (instrument) for 5000' AGL and flying in controlled airspace, renewed every 5 yrs.Do you think it may also be possible to individually seek permission to fly for hire for specific tasks, with that specific client that wants your services having input also.?????I've got em queing up to use gyros, legally.You and I and some others know gyros have a limited roll commercially, but used within their capabilities, they are spot on. Some are yet to accept that.I'm asking as you are in the loop with CASA......ASRAjust my view.....Russ....A1014 NT....gods country

[asra]

G,day.Good question Russell.Food for thought.Unfortunatley, Airservices are pricing some operators off themajor airports and onto the smaller ones.Some GA Companies are now offering Ultralight licence training aswell as the GA PPL, using Littlewing,Jabiru and Gazelle,s etc.Some of these same Companies also offer training for night,low level,muster,crop spraying as well as Commercial ratings.Helicopter training schools also offer the same things.What about when they discover and add Gyro's to their trainingschool.Any young pilot would be able to go out and buy their own Gyro from about 8K up,and start building up hours while doing doing His-Her helo training, with the prospect of being paid to fly Gyro'salong the way !The future should be interesting.Cheers.Safe stable flying.What would you rather get paid to fly ?PS: I would add a pic of Owen Dull's 2 place if I had one.Hint.Image Insert: 57.6

[asra]

PS:Make that Lightwing not Littlewing.Tar.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[asra]

Rob......if you think a helo pilot that gets trained to also fly a gyro is going to be good at both........THINK AGAINI've trained up a few helos in the gyro, they love us. They all have a problem with the power curve sinario. While they are still training with me , they get the idea ok, and fly good.They come back months or so down the track, to have a play etc. I can tell you every one without exception would have us on the deck, BENT etc, yes.....they have forgotten the backside of the power curve. General gyro flying etc, they are great......then I getem to get low and slow, into the gaps etc amongst the TREES, and every time they turn into helo pilots at the wrong time. They do this automatically, a trained only gyro pilot, automatically is aware of the power curve stuff,and he is OK.So what I'm trying to say is .....it's one or the other, instant decisions have to be made gyro wise at times automatically. Helos and gyros have some similarities, but boy, they can be as chalk and cheese too.Let the helos stay helos.......gyros stay gyros.....just my view.....Russ....A1014 NT....gods country

[pocky]

RobYou seem to forget there is a lot of country between you and Birdy,Just because you live on the coastal fringe dosen,t mean that we all use aircraft as you suggested eg. spraying within town boundries.I could personally see a legitamate use for the commercial use of gyros,instead of using ag planes within the irrigation industryboundry rider

[pocky]

Llewella,Why does some forum pages present two pages wide? and how do you change it so you don,t have to scroll across the page,boundry rider

[asra]

G,day.Russell.I dont have a problem with that, means more work for the true believers.But that shouldn't stop Helicopter training schools from adding on seperate Gyro training, I wouldn't think.I do feel tho that Gyro's need some sort of professional image if it is to prosper. After all we dont have any more fulltime Professionals on the books, do we ?I wonder tho, how many Commercial GA Pilots (light & heavy) fly Gyro's on their day off ?I remember reading sometime ago about the yank Vietnam chopper Pilot that got killed in his Gyro for the very reasons that you described. Apparently he was shotup and shot down 3 times inaction and lost a leg. He Graduated to become a Gyro owner & pilotbut one day years later, he was observed to make a simple mistake and was killed.They think that he forgot what he was flying, very sad. There's work around this part of the world for a legal Gyro also andI would dabble in it a bit if I obtained a pro licence.But I would not be interested in working a Gyro full time commercially.My interest in being legal would be for my own work first & foremostbut if a job came along that was interesting & I had time,I would doit, as I have in the past in other areas.Cheers.Safe stable flying.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[asra]

Rob.....I agree that any training helo...fixed wing, school can employ an instructor for gyros, but I'm saying that jumping from helo to gyro to helo etc is a recipe for disaster, and it will be the gyro every time on your TV involved in the report.......not good ehYes there are numbers of helos and fixed wingers, flying gyros recreationally, takin it nice n ezy, and luvin it.Getem workin a gyro........then just wait for the incident to happen, coz it will........trust me.just my view.....Russ....A1014 NT....gods country