Them and us?

[MadMuz]

As people are probably aware, I have been out of ASRA for quite a few years and although I have sandbagged on here and only commented as a guest, coming back into the scene and seeing the changes, some good, some not so good..... I have to wonder if the divide between the new factory machines and the more basic ones is on anyone elses mind?At Wondai at easter I said to someone, cant remember who, that it is obvious to me that the pretty machines and the more basic ones will become separate groups, I mean, they already are in my opinion. Whoever it was I said it to replied "I hope not!"

[MadMuz]

While I am in "dribble mode"

[asra]

Not sure why you would put ANY gyro into another category when they are all basically the same Bensen design?All sport gyros in OZ at the moment have the same rotor heads, the same way of controlling cyclic pitch, the same degree of teeter required on the blades etc etc as the original offset gimbal head Bensen gyro"s of 50 years ago.The only difference in the Euro copters that I can see is they all have had the brains to fit very effective horizontal stabilizers, even tho the thrust lines are a bit ordinary.Pretty streamlining doesn"t make a gyro safer.Anyone can make a homebuilt gyro just as nice, just as fast, safer (thrust line),and cheaper.We still see our fair share of incidents and fatalities in "new generation" gyros. :

[mad max]

Could not agree more Mad Muz. I now have a big Kruiser cabin custom built for long range (still undergoing trials) and my little Rosco ea81 clone trainer. If I had a spare 170 big ones I"d buy an arrow copter but keep the little open air trainer. It has given many people so much pleasure. Took a woman up the beach yesterday and we located 3 crocs. 2.5 to 3.5 mtrs. in 3 locations. One off our main beach where she had been paddle boarding the day before. She"s still buzzing with adrenaline and wants to fly again this arvo. I never get bored flying it and I used to get bored sky-diving. We must have two categories eventually and maintain the opportunities to modify and experiment with our little ones to help the evolution of gyro"s.

[Russell]

It"s one of them "home builds" ......just like muz"s little wing "home build" ......so do you suggest we then divide up home builds.Sorry pal......I like the system the way it"s been and should remain.

[asra]

Maybe we can have 4 catagories ? Safe properly built pretty homebuilt (Like Russ"s)Unsafe poorly built homebuilt ( God where do you start?)Safe properly built factory gyro"s.(Some have more idea on how to build than others, the Aviomania would be a good example of that)Unsafe poorly built factory gyros that look nice.

[gyroo]

I agree with Murray and Russ. If the time and effort is put in, a basic homebuilt can equal or better a European import. What this thread is all about, as I see it, is the obvious trend that is all-too-evident within gyro ranks. There are now more or less 2 types of "gyronauts" - (1) the homebuilders / "rebuilders" / "modifiers"; and (2) the "Turnkey" Brigade.For better or for worse, Europe now seems to be the epicentre of commercial gyroplane development. I can"t totally figure that out because one would usually assume that the USA is where major gyro developments should be coming from. My own theory is that because Europe as a geographical region is more compact and diverse, and more densely populated, than say, USA, Southern Africa and Australia, that gyros are actually a more practical proposition for Europe. Couple that with the fact that many European economies have had superannuation-type schemes for generations and have lots of cashed-up retirees (just like in Australia), then the "climate" for commercial gyro development was perhaps optimal in Europe.To my eye, the European tandems all seem to be pretty much clones of themselves, with almost no "points of difference" between themselves. Having said that, they are comfortable, reliable, usually 80 and often 90 knot capable, and usually attractive.When I look toward the "homebuilder" / "rebuilder" sector, where my own heart lies, I see creations and rebuilds that range from "Swiss-watch style" ingenuity and precision all the way down to downright ramshackle. The point of difference between the European tandems and a properly designed and built open-frame or podded homebuilt, is that the homebuilt will usually be slower but will be capable of manoeuvring much more capably down into the lower speed ranges. The natural habitat of European tandems appears to be paved or grass runways, and no-one would regard them as "short take off" (STO) machines. Below 50 knots is not their natural habitat.In my opinion, homebuilders should strive for advancements in reducing takeoff distance and increasing climb rates generally, because this is where the greatest potential for the next gyroplane advance lies. For far too long have we have been increasing weights, increasing takeoff distances, and reducing climb rates while losing sight of the fact that we now have machines that - despite being routinely capable of landing in half a cricket pitch length - usually need a straight run of several hundred metres to take off from. This seems extremely odd to me. Machines that can literally "land on a dime", but which need a long take-off area.We need to refocus and redevelop the gyro into the true STOL machine it could be.And, yes, homebuilts can be made really snazzy and streamlined - all you need is 2 stout tow ropes and a tractor front and back (see pic).Mark R, Melbourne

[mad max]

Your machine would go in the upper class turn key affluent pilot "chocks away old chap" category Russ ;D

[Russell]

A recent home build.....class act ( and ol mate will build one for you....thanks Eric, bet owner is chuffed )

[Russell]

Oye, Regan ya ******....... ;DJust saw your pic of me gyro, hope your private Medicare is fully payed up.Grrrrrrrrr

[Russell]

If you want "the ultimate" mind blowing flying experience, nothing comes within a bulls roar of a bare bones LIGHT gyro.Simply unrivalled. A must do for every pilot to experience.

[gyroo]

That"s all right, Russ, you old cootHow"s this one? I"ve taken your rego off if that makes you feel any better.Don"t choke on yer Milo

[Disco]

If you want "the ultimate" mind blowing flying experience, nothing comes within a bulls roar of a bare bones LIGHT gyro.Simply unrivalled. A must do for every pilot to experience.Spot on

[tonydenton]

struth, mad muz,and muz and mad max, I"m getting dizzy just trying to keep up with who is writing what.

[Russell]

listen here Reeegy, pic #2 has just about caused