Position of main wheels - ease of flying.

[asra]

Just wanted to throw up a discussion topic. When I rebuilt my gyro I was told that the gyro should almost balance on the mains. Anyway I reckon that makes it really hard to take off for someone learning. In all our training we fly 2 up and by the time the front wheel comes off the ground the rotors are almost up to speed. In a single place machine with one up and the wheels in the almost balancing position, the nose comes up early and we have to spend a lot of time balancing on the mains, and inadvertantly pushing the stick forward which then unloads the rotors, then you have to go faster on the ground to get rotors up to speed.Anyway to fix this I moved my mains back to the point that the front of my gyro is quite heavy now. But it has made it so much easier to fly (take off anyway). I hold the stick back till the nose starts to lift, feed it a bit more throttle and it is in the air. I take off now and don"t even use full power. I"m fairly inexperienced but this is just something I believe everyone should know becasue it worked for me.

[Mark Horan]

Baz,When you "feed in a bit more power and it just takes off" do you notice a drop in rotor RPM?Have you noticed what your airspeed is when you leave the ground?Does your machine climb out at a really steep angle?Why did you have to rebuild your gyro?What kind of V8 engine do you use?If it is out of an English car, have you ever wondered what you will do when the thing stops working 40 or 50 feet off the ground during your climb?Have you ever wondered why people build gyros the way they do

[bosca]

Mark, What are you talking about?Seems to me you are doing a one upmenship.

[asra]

I learnt to take off ballancing on the mains. If your balancing, the gyro will lift off when the rotors are ready to fly. With the setup I have now, I can pull it into the air and into a steep climb with a full tank of fuel long before the rotors are up to flying rpm, but with a lot of shaking and shuddering. I set it on three quarter power and it starts flying when the rotors come up to speed.I have tried a few different positions for the mains but I think whatever suits seems okay as long as your not pushing the rotors to fly before they are up to speed.If it is out of an English car, have you ever wondered what you will do when the thing stops working 40 or 50 feet off the ground during your climb?

[asra]

Just wanted to throw up a discussion topic. When I rebuilt my gyro I was told that the gyro should almost balance on the mains. Anyway I reckon that makes it really hard to take off for someone learning. In all our training we fly 2 up and by the time the front wheel comes off the ground the rotors are almost up to speed. In a single place machine with one up and the wheels in the almost balancing position, the nose comes up early and we have to spend a lot of time balancing on the mains, and inadvertantly pushing the stick forward which then unloads the rotors, then you have to go faster on the ground to get rotors up to speed.Anyway to fix this I moved my mains back to the point that the front of my gyro is quite heavy now. But it has made it so much easier to fly (take off anyway). I hold the stick back till the nose starts to lift, feed it a bit more throttle and it is in the air. I take off now and don"t even use full power. I"m fairly inexperienced but this is just something I believe everyone should know becasue it worked for me.Hi BazThat is a single seater (open frame) rule of thumb without you in the seat and half a tank of fuel.My rule of thumb is the mains should be placed behind the head location (level ground) Then test flown for final positioning.Sam"s 2 bob

[Mark Horan]

I guess the point I was trying to make was picked up by PeterW, and that was , Forcing the machine into the air before the rotors are ready to fly, and even worse, flying out on the prop without sufficient airspeed.(Bosca, a bloke of your obvious expertice should have picked up on this, Especially with your banging on about one upmanship, or should I say one upAIRmanship)Why do I mention any of this? Because I see lot of our guys "gassin" their machines into the the air without paying much attention to rotor management, climbing out on the prop, maybe slowing rotors down at the same time? A lot of bad habits become normal operating practice, which is all fun untill someone looses an eye. So what does happen if the motor stops with the nose pointing towards the sun and the prop pointing towards the grass at thirty feet and thirty Knots? Does it just depend on how fast you can push the stick forward, does it depend on how many hours you have logged flying straight and level? Or does it just get written up as "the engine failed and the gyro became broken"I dont know if any of you blokes have experienced disymetry of lift with rotor blades, I have, and its bloody scary flying towards the ground sideways!!!! (Mine was from a prop blade breaking, hooking itself onto the trailing edge, 18 inches from the tip of the rotorblade and acting like an airbrake on the blades)Any opportunity that presents itself to avoid that feeling again, I take.When I take off, I slowly bring my rotors up to around 120, increase power untill rotor rpm is 200 I balance on the mains adding power until there is enough speed to make the transition into the air, I drop the nose, gain 45 or 50 KTS airspeed and then Slight Back pressure on the stick gives me all the climb I ever wantIn the early Bensen hand book there is a line.....Airspeed is your friend. (unlike me mate from central NSW)

[konvenetis]

Spot on !!

[gbw]

"I dont know if any of you blokes have experienced disymetry of lift with rotor blades, I have, and its bloody scary flying towards the ground sideways!!!! (Mine was from a prop blade breaking, hooking itself onto the trailing edge, 18 inches from the tip of the rotorblade and acting like an airbrake on the blades)"OK, "fess up, you"re dead and this is your spirit talking!Did you manage to get it right side up? Bet you wished you had a Butterfly undercart!Must be pretty rare for a prop to shatter without help.I congratulate you on being here.Graham

[bosca]

Mark,You have in your hand a shovel and it is not for show.

[GraemeMonro]

A "shovel", is that because of what it looks like or is this just the new politically correct term to use these days?

[bosca]

Me,being political correct.Heaven forbid however a spade is a spade. ;D

[Mark Horan]

Graham,There was lots to think about with the rough ride caused by one prop blade missing, the machine flying left hand down and only 250 feet between me and the grass. (and very few hours experience)When in this situation, there is a very strong desire to pull the stick away from the ground, it would have been ugly!I pushed the stick in the direction I was falling, which luckily sped the rotors up enough to dislodge the prop blade. At about thirty feet the machine started to level out but not soon enough. The blades hit the ground at an angle of about 30 degrees, the mast broke, and the gyro tumbled a number of times before coming to rest upside down.Then it caught fire. Needless to say, It was an exciting day. ;D

[Disco]

I think baz got shot down there a bit.

[asra]

Thanks Disco,Your spot on. The point I was trying to make is that you can hold the stick back longer to get the blades up quicker by giving them a greater AOA and for the same reasen as you to get the blades up quicker with less ground speed. I also have spoke to Rob about it and he does a similar thing on his machines. I not real experienced but since I have done it it has made my take-offs so much easier and I just wanted to share that with people. Before I was balancing on my mains and unloading my rotor blades.Baz

[Brian]

Thanks Disco,Your spot on. The point I was trying to make is that you can hold the stick back longer to get the blades up quicker by giving them a greater AOA and for the same reasen as you to get the blades up quicker with less ground speed. I also have spoke to Rob about it and he does a similar thing on his machines. I not real experienced but since I have done it it has made my take-offs so much easier and I just wanted to share that with people. Before I was balancing on my mains and unloading my rotor blades.BazAlso important not to "rush" the rotors or try to force them faster quicker than they can spool up. Never had rotors flap on takeoff but I"m not sure there"s much warning when the limit is exceeded.I like to leave the stick full back till the nose wheel leaves the ground, then ease the stick forward [all the time keeping the nose wheel off the ground] AND making sure I"m not rushing the rotors and letting the gyro fly itself off the ground with a little back pressure on the stick. If you have the clearance, climb put at a higher airspeed than max angle of attack.