comercial and ag aplications

[asra]

with the rest of the world (esp developing ones) utilising ultralights and experimental aircraft for all manner of comercial and agricultural aplications, where do the aussie gyro's fit in???if the need for cheaper small crop applications has produced an twinn engined ultralight, how expensive do helicopters have to be before gyro's and ultralights can comercialy operate??? ie...muster cattle, apply spray to small crops ect.ecthave i missed somthing with certified craft and the private licence???if ive got it right i think something is missing and the rules are turning honest people into criminals.

[birdy]

Ya spoton Hoody.The gyro would have to be the least appreciated and most under rated aircraft around.[from a muster'n perspective anyway.]There are alota people make'n alota money outa GA craft do'n the job a gyro can do for 1/10th the cost, and they ain't go'n to give up their lucrative turf erasly to a "crazy", cheap ass gyronaught.Yes, it is understandable that some people will go underground when you are stopped by pointless and nonsencical laws, but I'v heard that mite be bout to change.I'v gota have the best life in the world, coz I can do it without break'n any laws, and I don't even have to "play" with words to explain my position.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.Ingratitude stinks.......be generous carefully.

[asra]

hey birdy,whats this i keep hearin about things changing???or is this just a pipe dream?as you said GA/heli pilots arent gonna like seein a machine in the air for less than their licence.ive seen pics at morray downs with seven in the air at once!!you'd have to save at least $200 an hour each machine. what a rawt,rowte, err... f***'n rip off!!!already dangerously underpowered choppers are gettin around every where. ask a pilot what he thinks about the power in his/her R22!!! ive never seen a heli have to hover while musterin nor an ag plane for that mater. if a beast still bails after a few shots of bird-scare you have to go help on the ground any way.[!] gess you dont need to be told that birdy but i wonder how many of those from high above have been musterin. i meen realy musterin!!!

[asra]

Interesting isn't it? My opinion is if the possiblity of using a gyro for commercial use is there, rally up the support and get the rules changed. Robyn and I were having a look at Dexter cattle yesterday and were advised that all beasts have to be tagged and registered by July one. A method used is electronically counted by a small hand held receiver and the technology allows to count the registered cattle from a distance. This being the case, there is no reason why you cannot use a gyro to fly about a property not only mustering your cattle but counting/metering them at the same time. Usually this is done in a race whereby the cattle pass through and are metered/read as they pass the receiver. Birdy I am not a farmer here so you may be able to clarify what I am trying to suggest.To get back what I am suggesting, gyro's are an efficient machine that has many commercial applications. The only way to get this approval is to apply for it, hey we can carry passengers now can't we?RegardsBarry

[angus]

Barry,the system is called ENLIS (electronic national livestock identification system).You still have to be within a meter of the tag to read it.A lot of producers,including myself fought hard against it coming in.Although if we could do as you suggested, there would have been a lot more people for the system.

[pocky]

Barry,Angus is right about the tags,in readable distance although I don,t follow his resistance to the use of the tags ,just look at what happened in Canada ,we implimented the system 18 months ago as most of our stock go into the victorian system.It seems most of the resistance to the NLIS comes from the northern producers,not sure why,it might have something to the time honoured duffing,or maybe just the sheer cost and time.It would be interesting to see birdys view on it.One thing that has to be mentioned is that between the NLIS,and MLA they really have to get their act together as far as the software and ID goes or the system will just not workboundry rider

[asra]

if someone is already working towards this i am sorry for jumping the gun. i am aware that many people do a great deal for us without much return or apreciation and id like to thank them.what id like to know is if their is something i/we could do about it?what is their progress? NLIS. why can the govt make laws that we have to use them but not make meatworks and saleyards be obliged to?for instance we do have some go missing and were thinking of using boluses to catch/deter theives,as well as they cant be ripped out by accident(branch,working dogs ect...). we are now being told that works arent going to read boluses and will not buy cattle with them. also sale yards up here are using a system that cant read them and when asked why they said no one in vic has used them as eartags were subsidised!!!markets have forced this on to us and now while we try to use it to pay for its self we are told a different story!!!

[asra]

also back to comercial use of gyros, what time frame are we talking ere???i know of about 3 people localy that would jump at the oportunity to use a bussines loan to buy a good bird and start workin as soon as they could

[pocky]

Barry,If you aren,t breeding cattle it won,t be a problem to you,u just keep on using the NVD,(National Vendor Declaration) yes its not just the aviation community using bloody acronyms.I know this isn,t gyro stuff,but as far as scanning cattle on a quick fly past,the scanners just are not that good yet.I know as we are on or third wand and second software update also so we could use it at the yards after downloading the RFID number from the MLA, a laptop was bought so the electronic number could be scanned and stored,guess what? the scanner hardware isn,t USB compatable which required another update.Do you relise that the number on the outside of the button is nothing like the RFID,you can understand way the Rural Lands Protection Board gave up on the job.At $4.00 a button I heard of one NSW producer saying it was going to cost him two B Doubles to pay for them.Yes Angus there are concerns and teething problems,but they will be small compared to not being able to trace cattle in the event of a disease out break,our clean green image is too important in the export market which other countries would readily fill if we stuff up some where along the lineboundry rider

[angus]

Pocky,we already were leading the world in terms of traceback.Tail tags and NVD/waybills may not be state of the art,but still do the job cheaply and efficiently.Make no mistake,the only people to benefit out of this is the tag manufactures,because if there ever was a disease outbreak(god forbid,cause my whole life revolves around cattle and i dont know anything else)our overseas customers would close their doors on us in a heart beat NLIS or no NLIS.Hoody the readers in the saleyards should be able to read all tags/boluses.There is only one meatworks that has a problem with boluses,they will still buy your cattle but any damage the bolus does to their rollers(they have stainless steel paunch rolls to clean the paunch,to do with saving water)will be billed to you.Sorry this has stuff all to do with gyros.

[birdy]

Hmmmm............NLIS, wot a wan.kIts alright for the guv to place manditory afflictions on us[ NLIS], but when we recognise a much cheaper way of do'n sumthn [muster'n with gyros] they try everything in the book to stop us.D1chheads.These f%$#&@ tags are only a money make'n scheam for some people and, I'll eat me hat if I'm wrong, the dodgy meatworks and saleyards have already found a way to cover 'hot' critters.A fire brand is the most permanent, tamper proof and easy form of ID.One thing you can be sure of in this gord forsaken place is, if its electrical, it'll **** itself when you need it most, and this NLIS systm is all electrical.[not to mention comp hackers root'n the systm.]You probably gessed it now, I reckon the NLIS setup is a royal root'.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.Ingratitude stinks.......be generous carefully.

[asra]

Your right, it is called NLIS, the point I am trying to get through was that the system is (as I understand it) will be mandantory to keep a track of registered cattle. I understand one will not be able to sell them or pack them off to the meat market unless they are registered. Angus, bear in mind I no very little about this, but the interest was due to my mate Robyn. She would like to invest in these little Dexters and some character was there going through explaining about these tags and that the receiver he had could read from a couple of hundred metres, irrispective if the tag was on the right ear or in the stomack of the beast. Couple this with a commercial mustering gyro I thought would have merit.

[asra]

couple of hundred meters?he was lying

[pocky]

HOODY spot on, as I said we made the investment and there are quirks,Birdy like or not it looks like we got to wear it.Grant we been down the tags ,rachets and the rest,bit like drench guns we have a cupboard full of them.Being breeders, Cattle that is,we also buy stores which may have changed hands a couple of times with the usual pratice of cutting off the previos owners tag,so there goes your tracability.So Barry ,no they can,t be read by flying over them at ??? alt. to get a count of straysboundry rider

[NiqueNaque]

Gentlemen,I work in the security industry, these NLIS tags are merely prox cards that we use for access systems, with the best of scanners they are only good to 3 metres, which is pretty crap.they are Passive devices, which means they rely on a signal from the receiver to reflect back to it, so I think there is little hope for your visions of reading at 300 metres.Sorry to do a demo job on your plans.You will note these are all labour saving devices, and that eventually, they will save your labour, and then do you out of a job...Cheers,Nick.