Basic vs Compliant Gyroplanes

[asra]

Sorry Waddles for my late reply but i am extremely busy here One thing you must know about our Gyroplanes

[GraemeMonro]

Sorry Waddles for my late reply but i am extremely busy here One thing you must know about our Gyroplanes

[birdy]

4 point harness isnt any good for mustern, you cant see under your tail with shoulder straps on.

[gyroo]

Hello Nicolas,Dragon Wings are fine in Australia. They have their admirers and their critics - they seem to inspire more controversy and debate than other brands, but all the criticism is usually directed to the difficulty of hand-starting them and the fact that their low inertia won"t give you much margin for misjudgement when doing a quick approach and flare type landing - running out of lift real quick and plopping you down hard if misjudged. Their build quality, as you know, is excellent.Mark ReganTech Mgr

[asra]

David i do not like 4 point harness as well.... but they do offer better protection. From my reading of the requirements i thought it was a requirement to have 4 point harness on compliant gyroplane!!! isn"t it???Mark Thanks for the info. I have tested several blades on the Single seat genesis. ( dragon wings, skywheels, AK, vortec, rotor hawks, bensen metal, etc.) and the best performance and maneuverability is accomplished with dragon wings. I never had a problem with running out of lift!!! they are tip weighted and they give me a lot of float on the flare. They also let me

[gyroo]

Thank you Nicolas!I can see your input will be greatly appreciated on this forum. Our members are always after reliable and accurate information about the comparative performance of different blades, engines and propellers. While everyone seems to have personal opinion what I really want to see on the ASRA forum are the results of accurately recorded testing.For instance the sort of thing that people are desperate for is something like a Gyro News article where comparative rotor testing is done on one single machine all on the one day and where important objective data such as rotor diameter and type, temperature and density altitude, takeoff distances, rotor rpm, climb rate for several airspeeds, airspeed for a given engine rpm in cruise, power off sink rate at a given airspeed, as well as equally important subjective impressions such as how the blades "feel" and respond, and how well they spin up, and how well the "hang on" during landing.This sort of quasi-scientific comparative testing is very important, but as yet has never been done (or at least recorded and published) satisfactorily. There will be a huge amount of interest in it.Hint. Hint!Mark ReganTech Mgr

[Brian]

Rotors are a great topic & having had a few sets over the years, I know that for what I do and for my gyro, DW"s arent going to cut it for me however DW"s do perform well and hold most of the records... [ unfortunately :"( ]Most of the really smooth rotors will have less than 1* pitch built into the hub bar. The more pitch, the better they perform [ for me] but more pitch means any imperfections in the rotor will magnify any shake.Most of the mustering fraternity will be flying on Patroney"s rotors and for my gyro, you just cant beat them although the shake is very annoying. Interestingly enough a set of AK"s that I have that originally had a hub bar with .8 of a * and were smooth as silk, now vibrate quite nicely

[Tsemler]

Have you used any of Gerry"s tip weighted rotors Brian?

[Waddles]

Thanks for the info Nicholas,Not sure if you picked up on the fact that single seat gyros must have an empty weight of less than 250 kgs to be registered in the Basic category. If this figure is exceeded, it must be registered in the Compliant category.Looking at your design, I"m guessing it will come in at under this figure.This is a regulatory requiremernt and ASRA cannot give dispensations against this rule.Of course, ASRA strongly recommends that all gyros be built to and registered in the Compliant category regardless of type or weight.The registration category has no effect of what the gyro can be used for. There is no differentiation between the two in this regard.Good luck.Regards,Allan.

[Des Garvin]

In Marks reply #14 would it not be better to nominate that the rotor / tail/prop clearence be the manditory X inchs or Y mm distance in the rear teeter position with X amount of weight on the rotor blade tip in the stopped fore & aft drooped position? This would make it clearer to all constructors.

[Brian]

Have you used any of Gerry"s tip weighted rotors Brian?No, I havent used them nor have I had the chance as yet.

[asra]

Mark i will check and see if i can find the nodes we did when testing the rotor blades.Brian, rotor selection depends on aplication and personal preference. for my kind of flying as well as traveling Dragon wings are the best. I have not tried Patroney"s but i heard there great.... maybe one day i will try them.Allan our gyroplane ( single seat) has 160 Kg empty weight with 582 and 186 Kg with rotax 912. We want out gyroplanes to compliant not basic .Please more info:Is four point harness REQUIRED or can we use only lap harness for compliant gyroplanes?Any information on Patronie"s will be appreciated ( Chord, airfoil, weight, twist or not, picture of a cutaway etc.)Thanks.

[Brian]

Quote "Brian, rotor selection depends on aplication and personal preference. for my kind of flying as well as traveling Dragon wings are the best. I have not tried Patroney"s but i heard there great.... maybe one day i will try them."Absolutely !I cant give you any technical stuff on the Patroneys except to say mine are tapered & twisted. They hang on a bit like an old Cat grader till the last rev. They give a good ride in turbulent air [ due to blades flexing more than alloys ?]

[asra]

Brian, the anger management classes must be working! Dragon Wing blades are mentioned numerous times and not a hint of panic from you,well done!Nicolas,I have been flying on Dragon Wings(sorry Brian stay calm) since the early 90"s and as you know there"s not much around that will beat them for efficiency. Hand starting is easy in a slight breeze but near impossible withe no wind,strong wind or rough ground.I have had sets that were as smooth as glass but others that shake the stick out of your hand.The set I have now are like that.Nick Norman has a you beaut set of scales as part of a rotor balancing set of equipment.We did my blades and I was a bit shocked that one blade was 32 grams heavier than its mate! I"m not sure why these would have left the factory like this but obviously they will be better matched before I fly them again.We have numerous sets of Patrony"s on various types of gyro"s and they have all been balanced because they were all out. No doubt it is very difficult with fiberglass to get blades exactly the same weight. Rob does balance them I think but not to the high degree that Nicks equipment can do.Rob also test fly"s them on a gyro with a long mast so this would mask some shake.Rob"s blades are basically a McCutcheon (8h12) clone with a alloy hub bar.Flat bottom with 2* or less pitch,good for hand starting and rough air but not as good in efficiency.

[asra]

I must add quotes from Chuck Beaty."Tip weights are 3 times more effective at increasing inertia than blades with uniform mass distribution" "During landing,as airspeed is scrubbed off by increasing rotor disc angle of attack,rotor RPM increase more quickly with low inertia blades, IE more lift with a softer landing.High inertia blades fall through"End Quote.In other words the "Dragon Wings" wont be as good in the flare as blades without tip weights.But make up for that in efficiency due to their almost symmetrical profile, narrow cord and linear twist.