Basic vs Compliant Gyroplanes

[asra]

what is the deference between Basic vs Compliant Gyroplanes ?

[GraemeMonro]

Welcome to the ASRA forum Nick.Nice to have some more knowledge on here.Graeme.

[asra]

Thank you Graeme.Mostly i will be here to learn that is why i am asking the above question.. i thought there was only 1 standard to certify gyros in Australia... but it seams there are 2 standards and i would like to know the difference.

[Des Garvin]

Hi Nick, Welcome to the best group of gyro people in the world.Cheers Des Garvin.

[Adrian S]

Nick,Welcome to the Oz forum,The "Basic" standard is only applicable to the home built single seat gyro and the Compliant Standards are to a higher level for single and two seat gyros commercially made. This reflects the fact that a commercialy manufactured gyro is expected to be of a higher construction standard, has undergone flight testing and has a flight manual. The specifics of the differences can be found on the main ASRA web site.The ASRA Tech Mgr may want to add to my explanation but the above paragraph pretty much sums up the differences. Adrian ;DAdrian StoffelsASRA Technical Advisor 655

[Waddles]

Gidday Nick & All,Both the standards are available if you go back to the home page and click on "Technical Info".You will note that both basic and compliant gyros need a flight manual although most of those currently out there were "grandfathered" into the basic category. However, once they are onsold, they will need to fully comply with one standard or the other.Nick. If you are thinking of having your product sold in Oz, please, please contact the Operations Manager BEFORE the first one arrives here. operations@asra.org.auIn the past, ASRA has had many problems with European imports arriving here with an expectation of automatic registration, but without the maunfacturer seeking advice from ASRA.This has created many problems for all concerned.Your pre-rotator looks good even if it is a little expensive in our dollars.Regards,Allan.

[Tsemler]

You will note that both basic and compliant gyros need a flight manual although most of those currently out there were "grandfathered" into the basic category. However, once they are onsold, they will need to fully comply with one standard or the other. thats interesting, guess i missed that when the membership was consulted about this new requirement for the flight manual for basic category gyros. I did one awhile back for a mate and its not a five minute exercise.

[asra]

Thank you Guys for the comments.So for any of my gyroplanes to be sold in the OZ they will need to be certified as Compliant.. even the single seat. I will be going through all the details of the requirements.as soon as one arrived in Australia i know it will need to go through the certification process. The guy that we are talking knows it to and he already arranged the person that will do it. I will talk with the operations as well so we will not have any problems once we go ahead.Thanks for the info.

[Waddles]

The requirement for a flight manual for basic gyro has always been there, for the last 13 years at least. Nothing has changed.Its just that no body bothers to read the requirements.Waddles.

[Brian]

The requirement for a flight manual for basic gyro has always been there, for the last 13 years at least. Nothing has changed.Its just that no body bothers to read the requirements.Waddles.Too true !! Its amazing what information is available on the home page...

[Tsemler]

good to see that, that rule has been let slide for the last 13 years then because i"ve never been asked about a manual for a basic and im sure theirs others out there that are in the same boat... Hope it continues to be that way!

[Waddles]

Trent,The crux of the matter is that ASRA does not have a Police Force to check on this sort of stuff, nor do we want one. A degree of trust has to exist between management as such and the troops otherwise some policing will need to take place and that means additional costs and that means increased membership fees!As far as am aware, the current policy is that gyros that were registered in the basic category when the new standards were introduced were "grandfathered" into that category as they were. However, if the gyro changes hands, then it has to comply with the new standard and have an F24 form completed and an approved Flight Manual. Again, the cost of policing this is a problem. Suffice it to say that it is now a real possibility that when an F006 for such a gyro is presented for re-registration due to a change of ownership, such registration may be delayed until the appropriate paperwork is at hand.Furthermore, if I ever purchased a second hand gyro that didn"t come with a Flight Manual and Logbook, the price offered would be adjusted to account for the extra work needed to produce these items.That"s my understanding of the system as it stands. Brian or another Board Member may choose to correct the above if necessary.Regards,Waddles.

[Tsemler]

Hi Allan,Thanks for the reply. Do you still have G111"s flight manual that I sent you sometime last year on your computer as my old computer died and I lost it. If you do could you send it to me please and I"ll make up a generic basic flight manual based on that one (so people only have to input their data) that then could perhaps go on the website here that would make it easier for other that will eventually have to have one when on-sold. My email is: semlair at bigpond.com Cheers,Trent

[Waddles]

Gents,The message below was sent to Nicholas to help with potential gyro import problems and the ASRA standards. It was suggested that it should be included in this thread for the benefit of everyone: "I just thought I’d clarify something from your ASRA forum post. Due to significant difficulties with previously imported turnkey gyros, ASRA now has a policy that only the Operations Manager or his delegate can inspect and sign off a new import. This applies to the first of type only, provided that subsequent gyros are exactly the same as that first certified. There is also a requirement that ANY new gyro must fly off 25 hours of trouble free operation before full certification will be given. All instrumentation must be in the Australian standard units e.g. knots for ASI and feet for altimeter. Additionally, if a compass is fitted, it must be designed for the Southern hemisphere. It follows therefore, that the Flight Manual must also be written in English and reference these same units. In considering exporting to Australia there are a couple of areas that have caused grief in the past so it may help if you can answer a couple of questions please. 1.

[gyroo]

Hello everyone,We - ASRA - are methodically working through the Australian standards and updating them in accordance with recent research, other international standards and taking into account some new technical innovations in materials, systems and technologies. This is an arduous and painstaking process, not to be done hastily or impetuously because lives are at stake.Part of that process is the standardisation of terminology and nomenclature.For the avoidance of any doubt, ASRA is promoting that all members get accustomed to using these rotary-winged standard terms:TEETER to describe the hub-bar see-sawing within the rotor hub.TILT to describe the fore-and-aft and side-to-side tilting motion of the rotor hub.So, what Allan and I are asking is that members pay particular note of the TEETER of the hub-bar within the rotor hub itself. We are devising a simple standardized process to measure the TEETER RANGE (ie - from stop to stop, in degrees). It is amazing how many members do not know what their TEETER RANGE is.Variation in TEETER RANGE can be easily overlooked, especially when the owner-pilot has several hub-bar/rotor combinations in the shed to choose from. It cannot be assumed that different hub-bars from different manufacturers will TEETER through the same TEETER RANGE. It is fairly commonplace at gyro gatherings for people to try out different borrowed rotors on their machines, and yet the possible change in teeter range is sometimes overlooked. Too little teeter and it becomes an extremely hazardous in-flight safety issue, too much teeter and the tail might well be struck during ground operations.The prospect of a tailstrike or prop strike during slowed-rotor ground operations can occur with the rotor hub TILTED back contacting the rear TILT STOP, - PLUS - the hub-bar and rotor TEETERING fully within the rotor hub so that it is in turn contacting or bumping whichever TEETER STOP in the rotor hub is facing the tail at any given time.Get used to the correct terminology guys!With the rotor stopped and the rotor blades aligned lengthwise fore-and-aft on the gyro, with the rotor hub on the rear TILT stop and the rotor and hub-bar lightly pulled down to be in contact with the aft-facing TEETER stop within the rotor hub, the rotor must still remain clear of the vertical tail surfaces (as well as the prop arc).A specific distance between the vertical tail/rudder and the rotor has NOT been specified in the new standard. This is because when the rotor is approaching flight rpm and developing substantial lift, each blade will also be assuming a 1.5 to 2 degrees coning angle. When the rotor is slowing after flight, however, the coning disappears and the slow moving blades naturally droop. Combine that droop with some further downward deflection caused by a wind gust, and the prospect of an on-ground tail strike is very real if the clearances are not adequate.The onus has been put back on to the principal constructor to consider very carefully whether the rotor of their new creation will REMAIN CLEAR of the tail, especially in the slowed-rotor plus wind gust situation detailed above. The principal constructor must take into account considerations such as the flexibility of the blades as well - AK"s, for instance are much less flexible or droopy than Patroneys.Regards,Mark ReganTech Mgr