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So after taking a guy for a fly this morning i was front seat he was back seat in his MT03, just so he could get a feel of what it was like in the backseat for a change,he never flown from the back seat before, then after a bit of hangar talk he informed me that you cant hand start blades on a MT0, well that was just enough of prompting to push the machine back out, so i sat in the front seat and got him to pat the blades up to about 40 odd rpm, i then told him to watch, since there was a bit of wind i tried to sit into it, but as usuall, it dropped off as soon as i needed it so i had to taxi over to the strip, done my thing and flew the machine back to him at the hangar, first thing he said was well that shoots that theriory to sh*t. Also i should mention that this machine has only 20mm of rotor clearance to the tail with stick full back so i took it VERY carefully, but it was done easy.Ok after just reading in GN, stuff about rotor management ect, i decided to ask the simple question.CAN YOU HAND START BLADES WITH OUT A PREROTATOR??If so what type of machine and what blades, just so we can get an idea of the skill level of our pilots, also put in if your an instrutor too.i doubt we will get many honest replies to this but i thought i might try.Edit:
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yes bones i had been able to start mine, had 26 ft fabricated goodwins and now 27ft extruded.both on an open frame thou if thats what you were asking. definetely a lot easier if any sort of tiny breeze.
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Thats a good question about starting blades by hand.Short light blades for sure,i,ve had do start them by hand a few times coz of prerotator not work,n.But start them into the wind.(learnt that 1 by experiance).If u dont, the time u get in ur seat put on the safty harness u,ve lost some rotor speed.Then flap will occure if u have,nt spun it up fast enough.Heavey glass blades :-?That is a completely differant kettle of fish.I have 27ftblades on mine,never tried to spin it up by hand but i,d be in for some sore arms if i tried.So realy it depends on how strong u are,what the weather conditions are like,how much run way u have in front of you.Only know this by my own experiance.Some other pilots would have differant oppinions??
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Thats a good question about starting blades by hand.Short light blades for sure,i,ve had do start them by hand a few times coz of prerotator not work,n.But start them into the wind.(learnt that 1 by experiance).If u dont, the time u get in ur seat put on the safty harness u,ve lost some rotor speed.Then flap will occure if u have,nt spun it up fast enough.Heavey glass blades :-?That is a completely differant kettle of fish.I have 27ftblades on mine,never tried to spin it up by hand but i,d be in for some sore arms if i tried.So realy it depends on how strong u are,what the weather conditions are like,how much run way u have in front of you.Only know this by my own experiance.Some other pilots would have differant oppinions??
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My instructor never had a pre-rotator, every flight was a hand start on 27"( if I remember correctly) Sky Wheels on a Parsons tandam.My first couple of gyro"s had no pre-rotator, very light 503"s. Still the best in my opinion.Graeme.
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I"ve always hand started. My 503 cyclone was the 1st with 24 larkins and no prerotator. My current machine had a prerotator when I bought it but I took it off to solve a bit of rotor shake. I then had 27" larkins. Now have 29" ak"s and still do it by hand. Dont need a prerotator and wont put it back on. Spinning by hand gives you a better understanding and appreciation.
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Yep i can, Larkins 25"s, Goodwin 26"er tip weighted, homebuilt gyro My instructor advised me against buying a flash gyro for learning, end up with 6000 grand banger, ya had to hand start the engine and no prerotator, best thing my instructor did for me, I learn"t how important rotor management was, especially on hot calm days. When learning with my instructor in his two seater he would also hand spin them up to the hump and get me to bring them up to flying speed.Even with a prerotator now a days i still hand spin them up a bit before prerotating.
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I did my first 150 or so hours with no prerotator or electric start.
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ken, do you have 29 ft"s on a 2 seater or a single seater ?
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My first gyro didn"t have a pre rotator so every TO was hand spun. (EA81, ali frame, Gerry Goodwin 23 footers, large chord).I have hand spun an ELA with a busted pre rotator. Luckily we had a couple of knots of headwind.Another good trick is if you have a buddy, get him to park in front of you with his engine running and use his prop wash to assist in getting your blades up to speed!Regards...........Chook.
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Yeah I hand spin my 503 with 23 foot Patroneys. And my tandem with 26 foot Patroneys whenever the pre-rotator plays up - no problem. I thought about ditching the pre-rotator, to save weight, but it does make life easier...
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Well my ol mate Albert taught me that you should learn to spin your rotors by hand to get the feel of rotor management. I have hand spun 23.5 ft ja"s with ease a few times. Believe everyone should learn hand spining the rotors be fore being signed off as PIC solo in a gyro. There would be less blade strike incedent cases. I have to say that yeh I prefer a pre rotor too as I am one of those lazy types too due to arms getting tired.
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Well my ol mate Albert taught me that you should learn to spin your rotors by hand to get the feel of rotor management. I have hand spun 23.5 ft ja"s with ease a few times. Believe everyone should learn hand spining the rotors be fore being signed off as PIC solo in a gyro. There would be less blade strike incedent cases. I have to say that yeh I prefer a pre rotor too as I am one of those lazy types too due to arms getting tired.
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29"s on a 2 seater Tony with ej22 and Autoflight. Mostly fly one up though! Ken
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Bones,Great topic.No one go"s solo with me without demonstrating safe rotor management including hand starting (except in some "cabin class" gyros like the Magni Orion, especialy with the doors on as its just too hard). For Bi-annuals with people with restricted licenses, I always try and convince them to undertake some extra rotor management training.Its interesting that I have found that most MT pilots are afraid of hand starting and appear to have been convinced by thier instructors that its not possible and not safe!. Absolute cr_p of course!Rotor management is one of the most important aspects of gyro training and I feel that many "factory trained" instructors may have been misled by thier original instructors. I personaly owned many gyro with out a pre rotator. I have on 2 occasions had to hand start my current gyro a Sportcopter M912 in near nil wind conditions after having a prerotator failure away from home. All you need is patience and a demonstrated understanding of rotor management. Also I take every chance to teach people who fly factory gyros the benifits of an assisted prerotation event using a gyro to "blow" air into a gyro stationed behind it to assist a hand start on nil wind days or when the prerotator fails. I also believe that most take off accidents in factory gyro"s would not have happened if the pilots understood rotor management. The worst example of this I have
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