Tweet
Hi,I have become aware of the availablility of an unbuilt Bensen gyro at a reasonable price, including a VW engine. Have no gyro experience at all but have flown GA many years ago and also recent Thruster TST training, which I consider more relevant since it involves the handling of low-inertia aircraft.Can someone please let me know the following:1. Minimum REQUIRED training to fly the Bensen.2. Minimum RECOMMENDED training.3. Any other relevant info (e.g. if this is an outdated design what should I be looking for? should I be trying to get some dual experience first? random comments? etc, etc)Thanks,Rob
-
-
Rob,If you haven't already...1) Join ASRA2) Join a gyro club and soak in the ambience3) Definitely get dual seater training, the more the betterA complete dual seater course is 20 hrs including cross country endorsements, for novices, your GA experience will shorten it some, though you are a risk due to your GA training and stick inputs in response to a steep climb and how to get out of it. You will overcome this though if it has been a while since you've flown GA. Paul Bruty trains gyro nuts, not for free though... anyone I've heard that has trained with him calls him good value.With the Bensen you must be aware that you will always be the 'test pilot' as they are not a type certified aircraft.How much do you weigh?Very important. If you weigh more than 80 kg the machine may be marginal for you and will not climb well, this could be a danger in situations where there are standing waves and down rotors which you cannot outclimb, like Shirl - ex of the Sky Hooks and of this earth, it makes the lee of a hill more dangerous. Have a chat with 'Ding' on this forum and he can fill you in on his experiences on a VW powered machine.If it is not assembled then check thoroughly what is required to finish and the costs anticipated, then double it.. for good measure. Take someone with you who has built a machine and who can tell you what you are in for, it could be as much as 200 hours of your time if things are wrong, Obviously less if they are right.Another trap is the right materials for the construction, do they have certificates to say the alloy used is 6061 T6 aluminium and is it 2.5 x 2" section? Are the critical bolts AN grade and the balance of not so critcal bolts Grade 5 UNF?Do not buy it until someone else with build experience susses it out for you. Refer to the home page of this site to look up some technical advisors who can advise you on what is right.Hope this helps,Nick.
-
-- more ---That is not to say Paul is the only instructor, there are others such as Jeff Henley Smith, and for Hunter Valley Gyro Club, the wonderful Mr Phil Wright, refer the home page of ASRA site for more information.I fly a subaru direct drive bensen design, it is marginal for my weight at 90~95 kg, if I weighed in at 70 kg it would be a barnstormer. I bought it for the purpose of training and did not want to spend much money as I anticipated I might have a stack in it while learning how to fly, as it is you will always have a stack while you are learning to fly, mainly because you never stop learning how to fly, I might have the flaxinator forever on that basis. I have been learning now for about 35 hrs and would rank myself as a novice, I can do circuits, but I'm not happy about my engine outs and expect to practice them for the next 10 hours, or at least until I get 6 perfect ones in a row.They are a current design, there are plenty still being built and as with any other aircraft, eg, the Tiger Moth, it doesn't matter how old the design, they still fly.See you in the sky when you fly...Cheers,Nick.
Comment
-
Thanks Nick,I'm under 80kg. Haven't seen the kit yet, I'll be sure to check into the components to be sure it's all the right stuff. Rebuilding a Quickie right now so being an eternal test pilot doesn't bother me greatly.20 hrs ... does that all need to be gyro experience, or does other aviation experience count for some of it? Long time (18 yrs) since my GA flying but the ultralight stuff is current and ongoing.Rob
Comment
-
Which of these guys is closest to Dandenong, Vic? I've been flying at Yarram recently and there are a few Gyro Gearlooses there.
Rob
Comment
-
Rob,I don't know the area well but I would suggest Paul is reasonably close at Ballarat or there abouts.I am not saying he is the best choice, but he is 'a' choice and the only one 'I' know of in that neck of the woods, as I said, check the ASRA home page for more instructor information.Since you've had GA training you might be better off going to Rob Glenn in central? NSW, he teaches all strands of flight and will know where you are coming from.As to Paul - see more details at his web site - find the link by checking it through the 'members' button at the top of the page, see 'Firebird Paul' for the link, You've probably read a few of his posts already.Go and talk to the Gyro nuts at Yarram and they will most likely fill you in.Cheers,Nick.
Comment
-
Neither Ballarat nor Central NSW is very convenient. But this is the price we pay for becoming empassioned about such weird pastimes I guess. I'll talk to the locals after Xmas while I'm flying at Yarram again and see if they know someone closer.Thanks again.Rob
Comment
-
Just checked the CAOs. Min. required is 20hrs dual and 10 solo, and it seems there's no credit for other aviation experience. This has a disproportionately high Hoover-factor in my estimation. As usual, we are over-regulated to hell by CASA. At GA rates this will cost around $5000 for basic training, making my "cheap gyro" discovery something less of a bargain than I first thought. And since no credit seem to be applied for navigation knowledge either, getting to a point where the thing can be actually used will be even more costly.No wonder there are so few people doing this. I'm just not that wealthy ...Rob
Comment
-
Rob said,know someone closer.Unfortunately there is not Rob. There used to be John McQueen at Traralgon but he has retired and sold his gyro and bought a Jabiru. I have a fixed wing background as well and convert quite a few "old" FWingers to gyros. Your GA and u/lightfixed wing experience will certainly shorten the training required. The minimum requirement in the ASRA ops Manual for students with "other" flying experience is 10 hours dual and 3 hours solo. Email me privately at paulbruty@lexicon.net and I will send you some relevant info that may be of value in your gyroplane endevours.Your radio, flight rules and procedures, navigation qualifications etc are recognised by ASRA. You would only be required to pass a gyroplane BAK.Where do you live Rob[?]Regards, Aussie Paul. []www.firebirdgyros.com
Comment
-
Hi Rob,Paul is training out of Lethbridge at the moment. I'm in Bayside Melbourne and its a 1:40mt trip. I'd say you'd do it in 2hrs no problem from Dandenong. There are at least 3 gyros in the hangar at any one time and you would be most welcome. The airpark is friendly, always open and has excellent facilities. My experience of training with Paul can be summed up by saying it was enjoyable, safe and extremely cost effective in terms of time as well as finances. I also had a FW background. He is particularly good with figuring out what you need to learn and teaching it in a way that makes you think you worked it out by yourself.Assistance with the technical side, without cost, since my initial training has been extraordinary. Of course, ongoing training will never stop, like all those phone calls for advice. [
] (sorry Paul)Dave
Comment
-
Paul,Email sent, thanks for clarifying the amount of training required. Not as bad as I thought. Considering Dave's recommendation it looks like this will be the way to go, should I decide to buy the Bensen. I'll know by 3 Jan when I get back from checking out the kit.All the best for a happy and safe Xmas,Rob
Comment
-
Hello Paul,Nice to see you here on the forum.Nick.
Comment
-
Hi Rob,Just to let you know that I am the Registrar & Secretary of the Australian Sport Rotorcraft Association. If you need any information or help, please feel free to contact me on registrar@asra.org.au.LlewellaWe are responsible for what we do, no matter how we feel.
Comment
-
Rob, just my opionion but I'm not sure a VW powered anything is the way to go.A EA 81 Suby with a Rotax gearbox is very reliable and will make a gyro fly pretty well.Price wise, the Suby might not be very much dearer and the Rotax gearbox is a great investment in making a marginal machine into a good flying machine. The rotor's play an imortant part as well [diameter and type]You wont get much cheaper flying than gyros. I have FW licence as well and can understand the cost and regulatory issue but I can assure you that gyros are a lot diferent.You never know how far you can go, till you get there !
Comment
-
Rob,I don't have much flying experience but would just like to say, I started my training with a VW powered machine. Although the VW was probably one of the better and more powerful VW engines as it was an Aeropower the machine was still underpowered. I have since upgraded to a Rosco EA81 machine and believe me, the improvement in climb with the increased power is unbelievable. It makes flying gyros a joy. Take my advice and buy a machine that is allready flying - an EA81 with a reduction box or a Rotax and you won't look back.
Safe Flying ... ding Insanity is hereditory, you get it from your kids!
Comment
Comment