Flat spins

[gyroo]

YES!I completely agree with Birdy as well.

[RossM]

Paul had previously posted this.http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30275

[t-bird]

Hi MarkYour are completely misinformed about the Bath tub dunny door gyros.The Magni with it"s heavy high enertia rotors are a pleasure to fly slowly, Ela"s and Mto3 spin like tops even the stock standard Raf, I don"t know what effect a Hs or Tall tail will have on a raf.Instructors should NOT demostrate backslides and is prohibited by most POHs.Vd should be demostrated and onset of a spin as discussed earlier. But only if the instructor"s can do it safely in his machine.Fullly developed spins should form part of advance training not for the newby.Chopper Raid and I thought Runway behind you is as useful in aviation as air above you or fuel left in your tank after flying.

[tonydenton]

thank you mark, and birdy you really have to understand that not everybody understands everything up front or learns as quickly as you. the "for instance" is that we all had to be taught how to fly , and the VD and FS are just at a higher

[mad max]

I would be happy to do live VD and flat spin training in a gyro with a reputation of "quick recovery" from a flat spin. In fact it would be fun. However my Rosco trainer for e.g. is often slow at recovery. I"m sure Rosco would agree, and in a world of litigation (American disease) one has to be careful not to mess the hair up on your student. A flat spin onto tall tree"s or a barbed fence would be no joke!

[gyroo]

Thank you Lucky Chook,And thanking Paul again for having saved that Northam flat spin news imagery. It"s highly informative, and especially noteworthy because the machine concerned had the low elongated twin-top-canted endplates on a pivoting plate HS that were particularly popular in the 1980"s. Most of the high speed propwash missed those surfaces leading to sometimes poor directional control at low airspeeds. The flat spin in the video is an example of that.It is also noteworthy the vast majority of gyroplanes now flying have central vertical stabilizers and rudders, always immersed in whatever propwash is being generated, and resulting in instant or near instant yaw response once power is applied. I"m not taking any swipe at Xenons with their twin boom twin VS arrangement, or the GT Gyroplanes Kruza, with their huge similar arrangement. I am, however, taking a swipe at the Gyroz because - in my PERSONAL opinion, the "twin fin" all-moving VS surface area of that type mostly outside the propwash is inadequate considering that it is entirely possible that one of the VS"s might well be blanketed from the prevailing oncoming relative airflow in a variety of situations, thereby cutting down the practical surface area of VS available to 50% (ie - one VS only).

[birdy]

Tony, a VD or FS is NOT an advanced part of gyro flyn, just like a stall or spin ain"t ina FW.They are emergency procedures.Emergency coz you can very easily be in one unintentionally.You only need to get behind the curve ina gyro and your ina sink, if it"s not corrected, you"ll soon be ina VD, and a spin can follow.All this happening to a newby will be overwhelming, and he,ll go in, but if he was instructed, at least he,ll know Wots go,n on.Sure, you can say stay above xx knots and it"ll never happen, but he,s human.Btw, that bloke in the flic, if he"d left power off and just sticked out of it he wouldn"t have bent anything, even from the hight he was at wen he realised he was in the ****.The nose woulda dropped and the lousy deflection he had on the rudder woulda had sum air.Notice how the nose came up wen he hit full noise?No wunder full rudder did Nuthn.He just tried to rudder out of the spin, and wen Nuthn happened he hit full noise, even less happened and he froze.No signe of stickn

[IanM]

Hi all,It is interesting that besides Max and myself there are no instructors contributing to this thread.

[Brian]

Tony, a VD or FS is NOT an advanced part of gyro flyn, just like a stall or spin ain"t ina FW.They are emergency procedures.Emergency coz you can very easily be in one unintentionally.You only need to get behind the curve ina gyro and your ina sink, if it"s not corrected, you"ll soon be ina VD, and a spin can follow.All this happening to a newby will be overwhelming, and he,ll go in, but if he was instructed, at least he,ll know Wots go,n on.Sure, you can say stay above xx knots and it"ll never happen, but he,s human.Btw, that bloke in the flic, if he"d left power off and just sticked out of it he wouldn"t have bent anything, even from the hight he was at wen he realised he was in the ****.The nose woulda dropped and the lousy deflection he had on the rudder woulda had sum air.Notice how the nose came up wen he hit full noise?No wunder full rudder did Nuthn.He just tried to rudder out of the spin, and wen Nuthn happened he hit full noise, even less happened and he froze.No signe of stickn

[mad max]

You"re right Ian about different people requiring different training techniques. I"ve found that with landings the academic type like to be quoted exact rpm, dive speed and angle ect. ect. and the more common sense person is happy with "Throttle idle, Dive at 4okts, curve decent, at 20 ft look up runway and stop thinking. One chap with a big beard who used to spend time in India received some training and I told him after he had much difficulty landing that he should just empty his mind and let the "great consciousness" land it for him. It back fired on me cause it turned out he wasn"t going to India for "spiritual guidance" ;D

[t-bird]

Hi IanAnd from which continent is that ?"There are manufacturers from another continent that have adopted a training program to convert FW pilots over to their produce in the shortest possible time."

[birdy]

You have to be a people person to instruct, that"s why I don"t.

[IanM]

Hi t-bird,I would prefer not to name names but the manufacturer whom I am thing of sells their novice students (or at least did in the past) a training manual that clearly states in the introduction that it is written for converting FW pilots over to Autogiros.

[MilesW]

And from which continent is that ?I reckon that continent might be Europe t-bird. Big place. 45+ countries. Miles

[t-bird]

Hi IanWhat happened to the instructors that you have considered not to be up to solo standard. "even some instructors weren"t up to what I considered to be a solo standard of knowledge or flying ability"