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The last thread lost the plot soYou are flying at 500ft AGL, and you notice a dot straight ahead. You suddenly realise the dot is a fixed wing aircraft coming towards you. You estimate it's only about 1nm away, and on collision course.What would you do, and what are the priorities?What is a suitable radio call?How much time do you have to act? Ross B[?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?][?]
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1 nm ... I may have 30 sec if it's another gyro coming head on at that distance. GA maybe 15-20 sec if it's a single engine light aircraft .. anything faster and me thinks I could get singed.I would immediately turn to starboard (right) on noticing the oncoming aircraft. As well as the rules of the air this would present a much larger target for the oncoming aircraft to see. It would obviously also steer me out of his flight path. Maintain a good watch to ensure the oncoming aircraft had also altered course to starboard. Maintain a good separation until the aircraft have passed. My priority would be to alter course to starboard and out the oncoming aircrafts flight path before making a call by radio.
Safe Flying ... ding Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment
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Ross,Appropriate response is to turn and bank left (ha! think again! - you must turn RIGHT, we're using American Road Rules in the air). At one nm it'll be on you in a flash, no point trying anything else as the reaction time of both pilots will not be near quick enough to avoid a collision.1 nm = 6080 odd feet/hour, your speed say 40kts = 240000 feet in an hour, or /3600 = 67 foot per second, his speed could be 100 kts or even higher, if it is a military jet (who else would be flying at this level?) you're dead from the moment you sighted it, brace yourself for some rough air if he misses you. Their flight speed can be scarey, but say 400 kts, or ten times faster than you, it will be on you in 9 secs approximately. There is no time to make a decision, just get the f**k out of the way, because it is *guaranteed* he will not have seen you.If such a jet is doing sonic, that's 330 m/s or 1000 foot per second, five seconds to your position with your speed taken into account.My response would be to apply hard right bank and nose down to set a course for 90 degrees to present flight path and kill throttle to do two things, get out of the way and drop down into clear air where any turbulence off the other aircraft would not be as pronounced as staying at the same flight level. A gyro can accelerate faster going down than it can going up, most usually anyway.Once you've set yourself up completely for your new flight path you can then curse the b**tard for flying in YOUR AIRSPACE, as unless he is in for a landing, he shouldn't be there.Cheers,Nick.
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Hmmmm................ I'm always see'n 'dots' in my eyes.[the quack called them floaters]But if it wasn't a floater, then he's in trouble coz any FW fly'n in MY airspace is tresspass'n.[and it'd only take bout .5 of a second to rip out the cannon and 'clear' MY airspace.]Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.
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Any thought out there on the appropriate radio call???????????????I'm not sure myself, that's why I ask some of these questions.Ross B
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Ross, Working on your speed being 60 knots cruise, I've done some quick calculations to show what ever you do, you'd better do it as an automatic reaction rather than smply think about what should be done.Their Speed (knots), Closing (feet/sec), Time (Sec's)60, 202'/sec, 30, 100, 260'/sec, 23,140, 337.5'/sec, 18In the above scenario, the other guy more than likely hasn't seen you. So by the time you make the call, and for him to mentally work out that the call was for him and react...( and he has to spot you). Try the exercise yourself by timing what your reaction length would be. How far from your origonal line of flight would you be in say 5/10/15 seconds? My guess is not far enough to feel secure.Therefore I'd aviate first rather than communicate, by immedeate hard turn right and keep him in sight. Get his call sign and then make it known that a near miss was averted by your skills only. If he didn't apologise then file a report to CASA.Please let me know if I'm wrongTedSquare bear at least once a day keeps the blues away.
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So what do you do Birdy? Just move over 30 feet so you can get a clear shot at him on the way by?[
][^][xx(]Flying the right side up in Canada
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TedI was thinking along the same lines, aviate is prioroty no.1. Turn right and get out of there.The radio call may just get the other pilots attention. There is not enough time for a complete call, so I thought the most important information first ie"COLLISION IMMINENT, GYROPLANE , CESSNOCK"(additional information......)This type of call would get everyones attention, and may help.Ross B
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Ross, Fair enough, I'll go with that. What's the next question?Ted
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Now that more of us are getting 'instruments' allowing us to go to 5000' this can be a real scenario, I agree that a radio call is useless, other than to recommend a better lookout on his part. We have to accept that there is some pretty poor airmanship out there and that we are almost invisible, fortunately we have extremely good visibility. Birdy raises the subject of 'floaters' these are age changes on the optic media, we generally don't see them as they are in a fixed relationship to the retina.This is probably a good opportunity to discuss scanning techniques, it is best to make a conscious effort to repeatedly focus on something in the distance, as with nothing to look at, we tend to adopt a middle distance focus, leaving distant objects a bit blurry.It is also extremely important to shift the direction of gaze by small amounts as well as focus on distance. Remember we only have a cone of about 1 degree of sharp vision, outside that we are more likely to detect movement than detail.It is not commonly understood that when we shift our point of gaze from one position to another we actually turn our vision off! So just doing a sweep of the sky ahead is highly likely to miss anything unless or peripheral vision percieves it as moving and so attracts our central vision to it.The real killer here is that objects which occupy a fixed position in our field of view are the ones that are actually on a collision course with us[:0]John EvansThink logically and do things well, think laterally and do things better.
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Next Question is a simple one, but from my observations gets ignored on a regular basis.1/ How close are you allowed to get to a gyroplane with an open flame or while smoking.2/ What section of the ops manual details this type of information.Ross B
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I cant wait for Birdy's reply to this one...M Barker
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Well,We'll have to christen Ross 'Mr Quizmaster', is there a $64,000.oo question? Keep up the good work though Ross, at least some of us are being forced to think.In regards to the open flame, in Welding practice we are not allowed to work within 30' or 10m of a flammable liquid, without looking at the ops manual I would use this practice. However, the fuel tank may be closed, so this means that the fuel is contained as should be the vapours, however, there are vents in the tank.I looked but couldn't find it quickly in the ops manual, its not to say it isn't there. My practice would be 30' from a gyro being refuelled, 10' from a static gyro.Cheers,Nick.
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John, My fixed wing training reccomended a zig zag pattern at around 10 degrees movement per shift. Would this be similar to gyro's? I'm also becoming concerned with my eyesight. By sitting in front of a computer a few hours per day, am I at risk of effecting my shortsightedness. I'm told that by exercising my vision by concentrating on objects some distance away (clouds, buildings etc) I may be able to slow down the effects of aging. Is this true?Ted
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Ross, VFR flight guide suggests the following;"A person shall not, and the pilot in command and the operator shall take reasonable steps to ensure that a person does not, during fuelling operations:- smoke or use a naked flame within 15 metres (50 ft) of the aircraft and ground fuelling equipment;"Would this be similar for Gyro's?Ted
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