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Nick isn't it a pity Richard didn't make an adapter plate to use his product the other way up, it would be necessary to trim the sump and a few other mods, but would be do-able. Since it is done by CNC it should be fairly simple to reverse the thing and get all the holes in the right places. Then you wouldn't have to do all this other stuff.John EvansThink logically and do things well, think laterally and do things better.
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quote:Originally posted by TimNick, 320 lbs of thrust @ 4" offset is not all that bad I sure I read on this or another forum that up to 5 inches was OKRuss
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John,Indeed, you'd then be dragging your **** on the ground trying to balance the other way, apparently the sump was a big issue for Ric, but like you said, it is do able.Russ,I remember the criterion being 50 mm or 2 inches, that was to qualify as CLT near enough. Obviously the lower the overturning moment the better, but as Murray and Tim have pointed out there are other factors to consider, and I thank them for their reminders.Regards,Nick.
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The important thing is static and dynamic pitch stability, which can be accomplished in many ways. CLT with an adequate stabiliser is probably the most efficient and straight forward way of building a stable gyro. However, a machine with a moderately high thrust line can easily be made statically and dynamically stable with the addition of an adequate stabilizer with a small negative AOA. Yes, the stabilizer will produce some drag and introduce some ineffciency, but not THAT much.Nick, I'm with the others. Add a starter motor pre-rotator and mount the battery as high on the mast as practical, then add a good stab, get a little help dialing it in, and then fly the heck out it. Going to elaborate and expensive measures to reduce the thrust offset by 1"-2" is a waste of flying time and gas money in my opinion.If you were building or designing from scatch, I'd say go CLT without question, but you have to make the best of what you have within reason.
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I think the need for a significant AOA on the stabiliser is overstated. I know mine is a monster, but I started off with 2 degrees negative, with provision to adjust back to 1 degree, however I've found I needed to modify the mountings to reduce it to what must be very close to zero now. I have yet to put it through the regime recommended by Greg Gremminger, but increasing power raises the nose and reducing power lowers it. I don't have in flight adjustable trim, this would appear to be helpful with Greg's recommendations.While mine appears to be the biggest around, it doesn't quite meet Cierva's recommendation for tail volume.John EvansThink logically and do things well, think laterally and do things better.
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Gentlemen,Here is the Horizontal stabiliser I have fitted to the back of G2066:Image Insert:
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Ah,You will note there is a dihederal angle on it - 15 degrees off horizontal, this will at some time later be used, when I've got enough experience to feel game enough to try it or by accident otherwise, a vertical descent, the dihederal might balance out the spin that seems to be induced with other gyros with flat stabilisers, it is only a theory and is yet to be put to the test, this is the test bed.So, I hope to be back in the air by next week end, wiring permitting.Cheers,Nick.
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OH..One final point.For their help with this project I am in a debt of gratitude to the following very helpful people:All the blokes who made comment in this thread of the forum.Jack Allen, 'gyro jack' as I have christened him, for his invaluable and very economical assistance with the fit out of many things on this machine - if you need a hand or bits made he's hard to beat. I'll do a photo expose of his components in due course, but there is no great point, essentially if you want a machine built, he's the man.Wal Flaks for his help on the rudder pedals and with hints on the hows and whys of the machine having been built as it was pre conversion.Mark Booth for his advice on the belt redrive tension.Phil Wright for his assistance with riveting the tail together and the final mounting of same.Warwick for his assistance with the thrust test.Sam L for his posting regarding the hang test so I could figure out how to do mine.Alex Tomlin, my photographer for the hang test, and his Grandpa, Bob, for the use of the crane.If I've missed anyone, my apologies, but if you had anything to say, it helped and I appreciate it.Thank you,Nick.
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G'Day Nick.I am glad to have been able to help some one with their machine.But I think we should thank this forum, as we have all learnt much from reading and asking of other peoples good and bad experiences.You may want to take a look at the thread under "Shape of tail feathers" as some of the info does relate to your type of machine.I would leave it, and work on your stab to overcome the small offset problem.Regards Sam. [
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Err ummmmmm....that reminds me to pack the Mr Funnel.Ross B
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I think the cost of gyro fuel at the RRR just got a little higher!
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Woz,I wasn't the silver tongued bandit that talked you into it... Wal did, and I'll note that he didn't tell me he was going to do it, the first I knew of the purchase was the redrive was in a box, paid for and in Wal's posession.I get it, you're pissed with me for not mentioning your name directly... if so I did before, but here again for the record::Thank you very very very much Mr Wozmeister for my lovely, shiny aluminium redrive, you are a great bloke and I admire you for being so generous.Maybe because you took the $$$ on the nose you can't afford to pay the affiliation fee, would you like for me to shout your fee in the matter?Lloyd,Seems the prospect of paying $20.00 a litre for fuel these days could be very high... 40 litres at $20.00 - about $800.00.. Nice animation.On a precautionary note I wouldn't dare fly it to the RRR, not with 0 hours on the clock after such a refit and me with 0 hours in 6 months, too many things to go wrong. I'm going to be flying local for at least 10 hours before I even look like trusting it. After I got the prop on I did some torture testing for an over hour at varying speeds, mostly 4200 RPM to emulate cruise and some 15 minute periods at max revs - 4700 RPM, I found a leak that I didn't know existed in the cooling system - water pump bolt leakingCheers,Nick.
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Woz,I have no problem being gratuitous to the right people and people who do the right things, you are amoungst them and obviously well deserving.When in proximity of the 'Globe', a steak at my expense will of course be mandatory, would you like it with Diane, curry or Bernaise sause, croutons - no.. pepper, salt? And will that be a triple bundy to disable you from flying tomorrow?Insurance money? I know nothing, so I worry not.Cheers,Nick.
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quote:Originally posted by JohnI think the need for a significant AOA on the stabiliser is overstated. I started off with 2 degrees negative, with provision to adjust back to 1 degree, however I've found I needed to modify the mountings to reduce it to what must be very close to zero now. I agree with John totally with this one. There is absolutely no point in setting up a defined "x" angle on your stabilizer unless you know what angle the keel flys at in the first place. This can be determined by bubbleometer if some airframe reference point is available to you in level cruise flight, or by someone photographing you flying past along a horizontal airstrip.If you have never flown without a stabilizer, then you may have to do as John suggested and trial different settings and refer them back to some stability criterion that relies on recorded results rather than expected results or "personal feeling".Tim McClure
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My tail fell off...Image Insert:
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