Pacific Flyer story

[NiqueNaque]

Ah, Marcus...Let me bask in the sunshine of your praise... such a glowing light doth shine from your soul.. thank you so for conferring me to 'expert' status.Why people won't acknowledge that rolling down the run way does happen, even to experienced operators like Paul is quite beyond me, there are some Ostriches here it would seem, Paul, maybe you can show him how to roll it up and put it on your side with your 2000+ hours of experience.So when is it most likely that you will trash a machine?From what I've seen students have an abundance of it, experienced pilots a little less.Don't kid yourself Art, it can happen. Just take care to minimise the damage, and cost.Cheers,Nick.

[Mark Horan]

Here is a message to all people who want to fly Gyros who may be put off by the preceeding OPINION. (Eddies last post)The training sylabus for learning to fly Gyroplanes contains a section called GROUND HANDLING. This section is, I belive designed to teach the student how to MANAGE their machine WHILST ON THE GROUND. After competing this section to the level expected by your instructor, You would feel confident that an issue such as rolling your machine would be negated by the training you will receive.Of course, there is always the possibility that someone could trip over whilst walking because they were concentrating too hard on the chewing gum that they were enjoying at the time.In such cases, anyone who cant walk and chew gum at the same time should refrain from operating Gyro planes. (my opinion only)Mark.

[asra]

IMHO, it is most likely for my students to trash a machine at the 80 to 100 hour mark.[:0] My insistance on pitch stable machines and my training experience seem to serve them well up untill then.[]Once they get past that, they begin to realise as I have, that I am still learning after more than 20 years and several thousand hours training plus whatever solo I have achieved!!!! A bit embarressing, but others may be less embarressed by reading and learning from my stories/experiences.Aussie Paul. []www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

[Tim]

quote:Originally posted by JohnIMEEHO this current obsession with CLT, without actually calculating the 'roll over angle' as the CofG is moved up is bound to lead to further ground handling disasters.Another one we agree on John. A couple more factors where the obsession with CLT is misleading are:-(a) What started off as "CLT" has changed to mean approx 3" below to 3" above. (presumably to suit certain arguements) Anyone with common sense can tell you that it is impossible to achieve CLT unless the C of G of the pilot and the fuel are both on the thrust line.(b) Setting a prescriptive requirement for CLT (to avoid PPO) is wrong because of the different moments of inertia of different gyro's. A good example would be the vast differences between a Butterfly with a light pilot compared to a RAF with two portly occupants on board.(c) The main arguement for CLT is PPO avoidance in reduced or zero G. The arguements ignore "Powered Torque Over", which is a greater possibility with a high C of G machine (or as it is incorrectly called - low thrustline), which has a lower moment of inertia in the lateral plane. I recall one such accident caught on video (Ken Wallis I think) where the gyro torqued over under reduced "G".Tim McClure

[NiqueNaque]

Tim,I have a copy of that video.The bunt over was due to the gyro being flown by an ex GA stunt pilot, he pushed the stick forward to get out of a climb, dangerous in any gyro, no matter what configuration.Cheers and Beers for Xmas,Nick.

[Tim]

Yes I agree Nick, a "push over" can kill you in any gyro. The Video I was referring to was more of a roll than a push over and I think it was Ken Wallis himself who was using full power to try to recover from a sink after a reduced G manouvere. The Gyro impacted on its side and Ken walked away.The Video that you have would be a good educational video for new pilots, especially ex GA pilots who have the wrong reactions ingrained into them. It clearly shows the results of a push over, even with a near CLT machine. I do not recall whether the gyro also torque rolled or not. Perhaps you could tell us that.Tim McClure

[asra]

[asra]

Tim It is good to read someone talk about "moment of inertia" in respect to Gyro's.For those who dont know, this is the flywheel effect.The most crytical thing to know about MOI is that decentralised mass is good.The reason for this is that MOI is ~ to the Mass x the radials distance from the COG^2.Lets take the Magni Vs RAF.I would guess that the MOI of the Magni could be 4x greater than that of the RAF. If this is the case then situations such as PIO would be infinitly easier to control and PPO would be not as instantaneous in a Magni.I could be wrongChris

[MechFx]

Great responses everyone, thankyou. Keep it coming.I've been out in the country for a week and will reply in depth soon... The article is being well recieved, Hope Mr Wallis doesn't mind being called "The old Guy with really high pants" oops, that one slipped through my proof reading......No disrespect intended to an amazing man......Art...

[NiqueNaque]

John, Llewella, Art, Chris, etc,My commisserations for the festive season toooo.......... don't put on too much weight, you might not be able to fly after christmas...Cheers,Nick

[asra]

[Tim]

John, it is surprising how many Gyro Glider instructors and solo pilots are unawares of the dangers and pitfalls perculiar to Gyrogliders.In the situation you mentioned above, you could only hope that the rotor speed decayed enough before it got to the point of balance. I suppose leaning in might help a bit too.Tim McClure

[asra]

John, if I may. If precession is involved, wouldn't the precession occur both left and right[?] Or have I missed something regarding precession[?]The US guys to whom I put the question, re precession in your example, say it is not involved because of the universal joint of the offset gimbal head.I asked the precession question after my Hybrid roll over last Feb.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

Before sticking my neck out too far I got a bicycle wheel I picked up in the recent council cleanup and did the precession thing