A bit of reality

[bosca]

Mark, stop.Your ruining my reputation.

[joew]

When My kids ask me what they should do when they grow up I tell them "if you want a job where no-one cares what you do, become a meteoroligist or an economist, then it doesnt matter what you do, its only a prediction..So why is it that the weather boys and Prof. Ross Garneat suddenly have the population beliveing every thing they say?Because it suits Kev!The climate change models are models. If science could provide models that would predict the stock market, then I would sit up and take notice, even better, if there was a model that could predict what kind of mood my wife was going to wake up in, I would be sold!the weather, the stock market and my darling all have far too many variables to be able to model.150 years of weather data and many data sites located in heat radiating cities with smog haze, to me doesnt make for good science. Propaganda, countered by propaganda does not make good debate. There is no doubt that the weather is changing, and will continue to do so, weather is day to day and climate is a very, very long term average. the scientists that say that the sun has nothing to do with climate should have been at the coast on the weekend! eliptical orbits and the earth spinning on a wobbly axis, to a layman may have something to do with ice melting in different places. Just like Kindergarten kids wont belive that the entire universe and all within came from a lump of matter the size of a cricket ball..... You have to go to uni to belive that one.....and if you challenge the theory, you"re a Skeptic! (Like that is a bad thing????) I would prefer to be called a skeptic that to be the opposite, Gullible.Mark.Don’t worry Mark! All we need is the second Krakatoa eruption, which is coming, sooner than later (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...lier.html).The last time it erupted, the following happened: “Average global temperatures fell by as much as 1.2 degrees Celsius in the year following the eruption. Weather patterns continued to be chaotic for years and temperatures did not return to normal until 1888.”That takes care of most of the global warming, without us having to do a thing! Hopefully Krudd will be onsite to witness the reduction in temperature first hand and we will be killing two birds with one stone, so to speak!I would also like to wish all of the forum members and visitors a merry Christmas a Happy, and above all a healthy New Year!JoeW

[Scott Hogan]

Worth a look but for real sceptics only tho".http://www.informationisbeautiful.ne...onsensus/Don"t forget Joew, there"s always the nuclear winter option if Krakatoa doesn"t come off as expected (to cool things down a bit).You can google that puppy at;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winterOMG... you guys are the laziest sceptics, let me google it for you.Hoges

[Mark Horan]

Dear Hoges,Thanks for the links, I must be a real climate change skeptic As I said before, propaganda Vs propaganda isnt a real debate, it only firms up each others position. I like the re worked hockey stick graph, it looks almost the same as the early one, but has a longer handle. I would have thought that using a longer set of statistics, (600 years instead of 120) the head would have become at least thinner? Also, it is interesting that the ice core samples were more porous at the surface (der)and that the scientists had to make adjustments to compensate (assumptions). But I was disappointed the Graph that Al Gore used to alarm the world didnt appear (because it is indefencable), the one that shows Co2 levels many times higher than in the past 600,000 years, an exercise in blatant misuse of statistical data, that oops, forgot to use an averaging formula?Am I a climate change skeptic?, every day for the past 10 years, I have been watching the weather get drier and the only thing more we need to make this year worse than the 1981 drought is grass hoppers.As a realist, I belive in weather cycles, yesterday was different to today, last week or twenty years ago. 200 years ago, bad weather was the rath of god, 2000 years ago you could pick any one of a number of gods, some with animal heads others that threw bolts of lightning. So does the shift about the enviroment have more to do with social order? Carbon dioxide is the conveniant villan, you cant see it and you need the equivalent of a high preist to tell you what it is doing! No wonder the church was suspicious of science when it left religion and went out on its own.Weather isnt static, so of course there is going to be change, but the religious fervor that surrounds the issue is the mechanism that turns me into a "free thinker", a dangerous position if you look back into history.Mark.

[birdy]

adjustments to compensate (assumptions).Assumptions exactly.The oppinois of met blokes, the ones who study fossles, head scews and any other inexact science should never be taken as truth, coz its only sum self proclaimed sperts oppinion, based on very little evidence, and no dout sumised in sum exotic drug induced haze.All youd need to do to get a different oppinion out of the same spert would be to change the drug, or the dose, or better still, make him go cold turkey.

[Scott Hogan]

Mark,At least you read most of it and that"s more than I did (just lazy I guess)Yes, I reckon your right about questioning the science and I just hope it is all a croc but I"d like to be the sceptic of the sciencewhich says it"s not happening, that is, man made climate change and I"d like to see if there is some convincing evidence that way.So far, all I"ve seen or heard is mostly "spin" with no science or real facts to back it up.With the fossil burning business being the second largest to weapons there"s a lot at stake if CO2 is fingered and gets a price put on it"shead. Anyway, I"ll be burning some fossils next weekend to get me a bit closer to check out if there is any more CO2 at about 1,000" (AGL), probably out your way I think.Hoges

[Mark Horan]

Scott,I am looking forward to it, I pushed the "tractor" out of the shed at 7 this afternoon and flew around for an hour after the heat and wind died down a little, more fun burnin fossils with others.Mark. ;D

[Ken Watson]

It"s Nature and we aren"t going to stop it. We have been warming since the ice age and nothing we do or any tax will stop it. If people feel so committed to their cause then turn off you electricity, stop driving your car, and even stop flying. True committment is shown by action; not talk or tax. I laugh at the new BASICS standards for buildings. They build with so much glass that an aircon is necessary in summer and the heat escapes through the glass in winter. Mine doesn"t meet the standards but is 10 times more efficient. I think all the sensible people must have died in the wars. Ken

[birdy]

I think all the sensible people must have died in the wars. KenTheres more truth in that than youd think, if you think bout it.It"s Nature and we aren"t going to stop it.I cant understand wot people are wurryed bout.warmer is better.nuthn much grows in frozen dirt.I gess its mostly them people that live on the waters edge, or below it that are wurryed. :

[Scott Hogan]

Ken,If you can get a break from saving the planet, come and burn some fossils with us after the rain stops this weekend, down Braidwood way.Merry Christmas too BTW to all.Hoges

[Disco]

Yep, what scott said. I was gonna call you about sunday.

[Ken Watson]

Thanks Scott and Dean, but I dont think the rain is going to stop in the near future: well at least I hope it doesn"t. If I can I will ring. Thanks, Ken.BTW today was Sydney"s coldest boxing day in a century I think.

[Mark Horan]

Certainly this century! ;D

[joew]

I think all the sensible people must have died in the wars. KenTheres more truth in that than youd think, if you think bout it.It"s Nature and we aren"t going to stop it.I cant understand wot people are wurryed bout.warmer is better.nuthn much grows in frozen dirt.I gess its mostly them people that live on the waters edge, or below it that are wurryed. :That"s why I retired in Canberra, Birdy! In a few years my place will be beach side property!!! ;D ;D ;D Joew

[Echo]

Hey Ken ,
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