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**birdy** · 11-03-2005, 04:23 AM

Hmmmmmmm, thats an interesting twist.So wot are you actualy apologising for Paul,the other blokes bent machine or not cum'n clean at the start.Oh, BTW, tell'n Ron you DIDN"T bend the machine IS a fib.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.Ingratitude stinks.......be generous carefully.

**Greg Mitchell** · 11-03-2005, 06:45 AM

I was of the understanding that the Pilot In Command is responsible for submitting any incident/accident report as a result of an event such as this. Perhaps I am wrong. There was a similar situation with swagges occurred in QLD recently during the TA's course where a cable came adrift from a swagge. Since then I have made checking the integrity of swagges during pre-flight, a priority. An experienced TA signing off on the craft should have picked this up. Glad to hear you are alright Paul, how much are you out of pocket for the damage to the Green Gekko?Hope you gave **** a discount on the training, after seeing his dream and extensive capital outlay rolled up into a ball. Are you still attending Cooma Fly In Paul?Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.com

**asra** · 11-03-2005, 07:20 AM

Greg, you ARE wrong. As Llewella would say, "read the manual". Why don't people get the facts before they post?????Greg, testing machines for other people is "all care and no responsibility", always has been. Remember I am the one that could have easily been killed. TA's, and more importantly the test pilot has to trust that the builder has told the truth, the rego form is filled in by the owner.Yes, maybe I should have removed the heat shrink and taken a closer look. We are all wise and great at finger pointing after the event.It might be wise for me to not to continue to help anyone, but I am who I am, and always do my best to help people. I guess I will have to re think my position.No, unfortunatley, I won't be attending Cooma. I am afraid that I am so far behind with my students that I can't afford the time. I have to be in Darwin training from the 16/3/05.Besides I don't need the experience, exposure, or the s**t.Have fun everyone at Cooma. And once again, to the organisers of a difficult job. You done good.[^]Aussie Paul.[

]www.firebirdgyros.com

**asra** · 11-03-2005, 01:06 PM

Listen all you know alls, get off Pauls back!!!. Test flying another persons gyro IS all care and no responsibility. Eratic flying is the only way to make sure the gyro's tuff enuff, Mods to the rotor head just to get the thing in the air is the way to sort the test PILOTS from the "just pilots". If things turn to poo blame anyone but YOU !!.Act of God is a popular excuse,I used that last time.Lastly make sure you get paid for your trouble,I allways get the cash up front for a quick getaway if the last landing you do isnt "Quite Right".M Barker

**asra** · 11-03-2005, 01:16 PM

Paul.....are you training that guy in his new machine, or yours???? would like to do an hour or so in yours if it's coming up this way. Also are your based out at Oenpelle or where....cheers...RussRDC

**pocky** · 11-03-2005, 01:32 PM

Here here Murray;I,am just as guilty'If Paul just come out earlier about the "incident we would not be where we are now,Dick Johnson said "Hindsight will only give us a sore neck" so if we can learn from this and move on for the better of gyros,Birdy, Yes I agree that there is still more to this,but don,t bury him until the facts are presentedboundry rider

**birdy** · 11-03-2005, 02:22 PM

I'm not bury'n no one pocky, he's do'n a good job by himself, by not be'n streight.Gess I'm not real keen on see'n someone else be'n blamed for his mistake.Sorry.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.Ingratitude stinks.......be generous carefully.

**pocky** · 11-03-2005, 03:06 PM

birdyi agreeCan,t believe theboundry rider

**asra** · 11-03-2005, 03:14 PM

[

] Happy to hear your alright Paul!!!!!!.It realy disappoints me to hear some of the negative comments from fellow gyro fliers.I fly because I enjoy flying !!!!!!!, and I participate in this forum because I like to think I can learn from other peoples Knowledge and experiences.[

!] It realy saddens me alot to hear some of the negative and uncalled for criticism from fellow fliers, and most of all, as I have flown GA, Trikes, and now gyro's, I am finding the gyro community to be the worst of the lot at getting along, and working together.We should encouraging were possible, be open minded, and try working with each other to make this form of flying the most affordable, enjoyable, and most of all, safest type of flying in Australia.All sh*t aside, I thank Paul for alerting us to the swage problem that if unchecked during pre-flight and test flying could kill.Thanks !!! Regards Sam.

**Tim** · 11-03-2005, 03:24 PM

"The Pilot in command, the Owner and the Operator are each responsible for ensuring that an immediate notification of the occurrence to the ASRA Operations Manager is furnished by the quickest means available."ASRA Operations Manual Section 4.08 - 4.Tim McClure

**Greg Mitchell** · 11-03-2005, 04:02 PM

You dont ever trust someone has told the truth.....you're suppose to check the thing out....if you have an incident in a gyro, you fill out the incident accident report... and if your gonna bull sh*t about something, expect to get pulled on....if you want to thank someone for the swagge/cable occurrence reporting, thank the many in the past who have suffered similar incidents and reported promptly...Murray's tongue in cheek basting, is really all this apology deserves.....Sam read some of the crap thrown at Butterfly in the past, there will always be....I heard a guy up Qld way (passed over) used to make the 'sign of the cross' standing in front of his gyro before setting off, I'm led to believe this was the better part of his pre flight. My concern is that a number of these "little incidents" besetting individual instructor might give cause for concern as to how much time and energy is given to inspection of craft for signing off prior to test flying.....and Paul would have been busting his hump to be the first to fly a little wing, And to post same.....time to get back to basics and I'm not pointing the finger or trying to be a smart ****....but this is old news and your apology doesn't hold water with me, reads like a major butt covering exercise, with the usual amount of Hail Pual Bruty Selfless Grandfather of the Australian Gyro Fraternity. I'm certain this will bring down the heat on you Paul and put some on me, so be thankfull for that. Really, I am very happy that you were not hurt. I am not wrong about the "all care and no responsibility", I know the deal, but fancy telling a new student pilot, freshly signed up, that he has to submit an incident/accident report on his gyro which crashed with you in it. Does not make a lot of sense...and to refer to it on the forum as "It's not my job to submit a form on someone elses incident...PLEASE...Before you bring it on, remember this...You are suppose to be at the top of your game, someone for us newbies to look up to and respect, you are making it harder and harder for me to do so.Mitchwww.thebutterflyllc.com

**NiqueNaque** · 11-03-2005, 04:09 PM

So Paul,As a test on any machine would it be a good idea to stand on both rudders really hard to see if the cables slip?Would it be a good idea to double swage all cables?Thank you for reporting this to us, we should be grateful to you for being the crash test dummy... so often. How many times is this - you should consider stopping at 8.NO, Ozy, I'm not awarding him your title.Cheers,Nick.

**asra** · 12-03-2005, 01:54 AM

What a gullible breed we humans are.After 5 days of denial from the Pilot in command this is the best he can come up with?.I'll help him out by finishing the accident report:Reasons or incedent

1) Modifying rotor head by pilot in command to reduce back stick, (2) Unable to flare aircraft sufficiently due to reduced rearward rotor tilt, Damage to aircraft: Rotor, propeler,damage to fuselage,Broken rudder cable.Conclusion: Pilot error.M Barker

**NiqueNaque** · 12-03-2005, 02:47 AM

Murray,Sad it is that we are gullible, some more than others, but I don't think this is down to being gullible, except maybe for Paul who believed everything was right... because the presentation was good.No matter what, any crash can be attributable to some degree to pilot error, ie, if you didn't get in the damn thing and fly it you wouldn't have an incident / accident, etc. But then you will never get off the ground.I can't see where Paul mentioned 'modified', he only mentioned 'found', 'established' and 'measured', so it may not be down to Paul in relation to the out of control landing he walked away from - so it was a good landing then because he walked away from it.What is the case Paul?I don't know if you do, but if you don't Paul, write yourself a commissioning check list so you can tick these items off:Swages - ?Nicopress - yes / no (if no, fail)Swages - ?Double - yes / no (if no, fail)Swages - ?Tooling correct - yes / no (if no, fail)Nick

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