Work'n gyros.

[asra]

Dean.....As I said way back....getem low and slow, and they turn into helo pilots at the wrong time......well the three I was flyin with anyway. And yes the blade windup on the ground can catchem to.I've been flyin these things since the early 70's, got approx 2000hrs about 20 yrs ago....log books, never bothered then. Now here I am 2005, still going strong, and still lernin, and sometimes, still sqeezin the cheeks.No disrespect to the 3 helos I've trained, but I can tell you their initial tone was they expected gyros and them was going to be a walk in the park, and there were occasions that I felt gyros were regarded by them as a toy or something.( I soon changed that )Gyros are a unique flying machine,have a huge flying envelope, safe, and now reliable etc.....almost unlimited potential.My concern is that some helos as prev stated with the attitude they may have....re gyros, may cause events as I have said before.That legend you speak of ......yes I know him, and he is quite something......about 1980 he drove to Burdikin somewhere,bought a gyro,and flew it straight back to central Qld.....yes flew it.....had never sat in a gyro before that day.His comments are o so true......as is the sky above you, and the runway behind ........both of no use to you.Keep up your good work......and teach helos, that gyros do bite....HARD, if you do it wrong.Russ....A1014 NT....gods country

[asra]

Originally posted by BrianYou dont know Rusty Birdy. I'm pretty sure thats who Deano is refering to.You never know how far you can go, till you get there !That's the guy......Russ....A1014 NT....gods country

[birdy]

I know of Rusty.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.Ingratitude stinks.......be generous carefully.

[asra]

Russ :I see in your user profile you are an instructor. So I am wondering why would you make a statement like this.Your quote : " They have absolutely NO IDEA.....and they have a double dose of ATITUDE As I said before....helos stay helo...gyro stay gyro "Based on your opinion about what to fly maybe I had better quit flying other types if I fly my gyro?Please let me know soonest as I am about to start the Boeing 737-800 training as soon as I get back to Amsterdam...that way I can decide which machine I should choose from...[]Then maybe you are just kidding. []

[asra]

Yea......take up base jumping.....[]Mate......in the 70's and early 80's these things we fly, were dropin owta the sky ,like flys.......we are now, still to an extent, suffering wrongfull press coz of that.......but it is also getting better, thankfully.You know, we know, that todays machines, todays training requirements etc etc etc, are now working to correct that era.My only concern, is for just one newby into gyros, with attitude, gets signed off today.....goes workin one tomorrow.....it will happen.I refused to train a guy that was going to do exactly that, he had a great oppertunity to earn big bucks. I told him I would train him only if he would get a min 100hrs general gyro flying, before he got low n slow etc etc chasin brumbies for the shooters.He went elsewhere........and bingo, decked it within 6 weeks.And yes, he had previous flying skills.I've expressed views re this thread, this is the last.again......just my viewRuss....A1014 NT....gods country

[asra]

" again......just my view "And having read your reply a view I support 100%. []When one identifies a problem one solves it,if any student displays a dangerous attitude and you can't change their thinking then the only alternative is to refuse to train them..Chuck E.

[asra]

I was intrigued some years ago when doing a Medical on a Commercial Helicopter pilot working for an Indonesian oil company, to learn that they, I presume the Indonesian government would not allow the holding of both fixed wing and rotary wing licenses. This fellow had surrended his fixed wing license to keep his job. I wonder if this could be related to your problem Russel? Perhaps it was a cultural problem where the people entering pilot training did not have the early exposure to handling different vehicles, and so are not 'programmed' to switch reactions the way we have to. On the other hand there may be some of us who have difficulty unlearning an innapropriate response when the chips are down.R.W Prouty in Vertiflite magazine Fall 2003 discusses a similar phenomenon with regard to two helicopter crashes following engine failure. In these events the pilots survived and were able to recall their actions, they had actually poled the cyclic forward, as you would in a fixed wing 'to maintain airspeed'. It seems the appropriate action is to pull back to load the rotor by increasing the upward flow of air through it and maintain rotor rpm.OK so we have a Human Factors problem, I wonder if there is any way people with this problem can be identified, and whether some sort of remedial training would be effective.I gather that the RAAF doesn't seem to think it is remediable, as they quite arbitrarily scrub people who 'get behind the aircraft' even when a lot of money has been spent on their training.John EvansThink logically and do things well, think laterally and do things better.

[Brian]

Just my thought but some pilots are just naturally more gifted than other's just as some doctors are GP's and some are brain surgeons.I cant personally see that it would be too dificult switching between flying machines BUT I can see that attitude could bring you unstuck very quickly. I read Deano's profile and I'm impressed....even more impressed when I see you fly a Rosco built gyro. Welcome Deano.Hope you realize that you fly a high thrust line gyro although its probably not as high as mine. You may find some poster's in the forum believe these gyros to be unsafe and the pilots flying them need to have exceptional skills to stop PPO's [power pushovers]Very interesting John and I think anyone getting 'behind' their aircraft are an accident waiting to happen. I know personally that when I have had an engine out, I have already taken the necessary action without having to work out what I'm going to do cause you just havent the time to work out what you have to do. I call it for a lack of a better word, instinct !I hope I dont sound like a 'know all 'but thats just my personal experience.Brian.You never know how far you can go, till you get there !

[Brian]

Looks like we all know of Rusty, pity we cant get him on the forum, now, that would be interesting, particularly if we got him onto the USA forum. I can see a team here, Birdy, Deano, Rusty, Russ...anyone else would like to nominate someone ???Chuck, Quote I'm just about to start training on the 737 -800. Oh boy, dont you get it tough. Whats after that ?? The 767 ??BrianYou never know how far you can go, till you get there !

[asra]

BTW it is the GPs who have all the brains, as the brain surgeons or any specialists for that matter only need expertise in a limited field.LlewellaA sceptic is a person who, when he sees the handwriting on the wall, claims it is a forgery.

[asra]

Quick questionoes that mean the brainy the GP ( no disrespect here because most work very hard )can overrule the recommendations of a Specialist ?For instance, a couple of years ago my wife was going blind and thespecialist recommended surgery for new lenses. The government GPfellow said no surgery was needed ! When I started to make bignoises asking how the GP new more than the Specialist, that resolvedthe issue and she got the lenses which work very well.No one is perfect and I am sure other people could relate similarstories.The best idea I think is that we try to do the very best that wecan and pull together.Cheers.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[asra]

Having been an flying instructor for over forty years it is my observation that only around 5 to 10 percent of pilots in the pool are wired to just naturally think ahead of and skillfully fly an aircraft, fixed or rotary wing really has no real bearing on their motor responses and ability to think ahead of the machine....There is one factor that can narrow the skills level and thought process between the poorest performers and the best performers and that is recurrent training and even more important the exposure to flying, generally speaking repetition and the frequency in performing the task will build up the skills level for everyone. "Chuck, Quote I'm just about to start training on the 737 -800. Oh boy, dont you get it tough. Whats after that ?? The 767 ??Brian "Naw Brian, the only reason I'm doing the 737-800 thing is one of the owners of the PBY that I am flying for the Dutch group has offered me the training in their simulator for free, so being an aviation **** I just open my legs and submit..[]I did the Airbus course in Toulouse in 1998 so what the f.ck why not try Boeing? []

[asra]

Oh boy! Robert and Llewella have opened a vey wriggly can of worms! Suffice it to say that in my opinion it's more demanding to be a good GP than a good specialist, this is because in GP you have no idea what your next patient will confront you with, it could be trivial, or it could be life threatening,and it could be when you're flat out exhausted and at a very inconvenient time, whereas in a Specialist practice some initial assessment will have been made by your referring colleague, you then have to decide whether or not the problem fits into your limited patch of expertise and either deal with it or pass it on to someone else. Often it comes back to the GP who has the problem of reconciling differing specialist opinions.Your wife's experience is regrettable Robert, but is I believe becoming a more common problem with our deteriorating health care system.John EvansThink logically and do things well, think laterally and do things better.

[asra]

I agree John, Gp's dont have it easy and they deserve respect.It's a pity tho that in some cases, the oath taken in the beginningshould suffer in the end !I certainly hope that we have not opened up a can of worms becausethe Gyro fraternity and this forum is not the place for it.Cheers.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[telf]

You're right, Olbod.The absolute last thing we want is to hear the views of cranky, old GPs.(telf runs and hides while Doc fills out his death certificate in anticipation...)Flying - The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. (Douglas Adams-The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)