Revised CAO 95-12 amendment 2

[telf]

An RAA CFI mate of mine has just brought to my attention that the 500' and 8km certified aerodrome restrictions have been lifted subject to being endorsed by ASRA.What is the procedure to obtain such an endorsement?Waddles made mention of this possibly happening in the latest mag.Single Seathttp://www.casa.gov.au/download/orde...95-12amdt2.pdf2 seathttp://www.casa.gov.au/download/orde...-12-1amdt2.pdftelfFlying - The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. (Douglas Adams-The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)N.B. At the suggestion of Tim McClure, topic moved to http://www.asra.org.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1652 - telf

[asra]

I take it from Waddles that you have to pass the appropriate exams to show that you know the rules. I was talking to Waddles about this last week, natuarally about me operating from Ballarat for Firebird testing so that I can get back training ASAP for members.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

"...that you have to pass the appropriate exams to show that you know the rules"Wouldn't the current BAK and cross country endorsement cover this? Or perhaps it just needs a couple of extra questions? Meanwhile, one would assume that if CASA has already granted an instrument to some pilots this would be taken as a 'pass' by ASRA? Dave(trying, with little hope, to avoid yet another exam [] )

[NiqueNaque]

I'd include Radio, BAK, Cross Country before I got too excited about this...Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you

[asra]

quote:Originally posted by daveb"...that you have to pass the appropriate exams to show that you know the rules"Wouldn't the current BAK and cross country endorsement cover this? Or perhaps it just needs a couple of extra questions? Meanwhile, one would assume that if CASA has already granted an instrument to some pilots this would be taken as a 'pass' by ASRA? Dave(trying, with little hope, to avoid yet another exam [] )Dave, some of the ASRA certificate holders have never passed a written exam. These would have been from the days before the exams of today were required. I would imagine that anyone who already has a CASA exemption would automatically be granted these privileges with an application to ASRA. I would imagine those that have already passed the ASRA exams for rules of the air and radio would automatically be granted these privileges with an application to ASRA.I would also imagine that those already having these privileges from other sport flying disciplines like the RAA, gliding, GA etc. would automatically be granted these privileges with an application to ASRA.Those that have not passed those exams will have to pass them to be able to exercise these privileges. That would seem like a logical evolution to this ANO amendment.Well done to Waddles for the work he has done to achieve this, but I suspect that it is financially driven from CASA. ASRA now has to wear the workload and will get no more money from the govt. ASRA may have to look at a fee if there is a substantial increase in workload, although this will be a short term workload to cover the people who require the privileges immediately. I would imagine from now on, that everyone who is issued with an ASRA pilots certificate will automatically gain these privileges, the same as the RAA, HGFA, etc.For the last few years, to gain an ASRA certificate the appropriate exams have been mandatory.This is great news, particularly for me. It will allow me to train from Ballarat after the 25th March 2006, yes next week.[] If I was not allowed to operate from Ballarat I would not continue training. It is not economical for me to drive to another field to train when my Firebird operations are located at Ballarat. There is more of a return on my time and finances selling Firebirds than training, so I need to be able to combine the two. Not unreasonable I would think.Thanks Waddles and the ASRA Board.[^]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

quote:Originally posted by daveb"...that you have to pass the appropriate exams to show that you know the rules"Wouldn't the current BAK and cross country endorsement cover this? Or perhaps it just needs a couple of extra questions? Meanwhile, one would assume that if CASA has already granted an instrument to some pilots this would be taken as a 'pass' by ASRA? Dave(trying, with little hope, to avoid yet another exam [] )Dave, some of the ASRA certificate holders have never passed a written exam. These would have been from the days before the exams of today were required. I would imagine that anyone who already has a CASA exemption would automatically be granted these privileges with an application to ASRA. I would imagine those that have already passed the ASRA exams for rules of the air and radio would automatically be granted these privileges with an application to ASRA.I would also imagine that those already having these privileges from other sport flying disciplines like the RAA, gliding, GA etc. would automatically be granted these privileges with an application to ASRA.Those that have not passed those exams will have to pass them to be able to exercise these privileges. That would seem like a logical evolution to this ANO amendment.Well done to Waddles for the work he has done to achieve this, but I suspect that it is financially driven from CASA. ASRA now has to wear the workload and will get no more money from the govt. ASRA may have to look at a fee if there is a substantial increase in workload, although this will be a short term workload to cover the people who require the privileges immediately. I would imagine from now on, that everyone who is issued with an ASRA pilots certificate will automatically gain these privileges, the same as the RAA, HGFA, etc.For the last few years, to gain an ASRA certificate the appropriate exams have been mandatory.This is great news, particularly for me. It will allow me to train from Ballarat after the 25th March 2006, yes next week.[] If I was not allowed to operate from Ballarat I would not continue training. It is not economical for me to drive to another field to train when my Firebird operations are located at Ballarat. There is more of a return on my time and finances selling Firebirds than training, so I need to be able to combine the two. Not unreasonable I would think.Thanks Waddles and the ASRA Board.[^]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

quote:Originally posted by NiqueNaqueI'd include Radio, BAK, Cross Country before I got too excited about this...Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for youHey pessimist Nick, why would you need a cross country certificate to operate within 25 nm of a licensed aerodrome?[?]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

quote:Originally posted by NiqueNaqueI'd include Radio, BAK, Cross Country before I got too excited about this...Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for youHey pessimist Nick, why would you need a cross country certificate to operate within 25 nm of a licensed aerodrome?[?]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[Waddles]

Gentlemen,As I understand it, the changes became effective of Friday last, March 17th. I am awaiting advice from CASA regarding the implementation of the changes. The Ops Manual amendment detailing the new ASRA endorsements has been with CASA for a month or so, and I guess once they are approved we will move forward.Rather then speculate here, I will wait until all is set in concrete then advise you all under ASRA News on this forum. I am anticipating that we will need a copy of the first page of any CASA instrument that you hold or have held which concerns this matter.Please remember also, that once the process begins there will most likely be a rush on applications, each of which must be approved and authorised before Llewella can reissue the Certificates. She has other work to do and needs time off as well, so please be patient.Stay tuned.Regards,Waddles.

[Waddles]

Gentlemen,As I understand it, the changes became effective of Friday last, March 17th. I am awaiting advice from CASA regarding the implementation of the changes. The Ops Manual amendment detailing the new ASRA endorsements has been with CASA for a month or so, and I guess once they are approved we will move forward.Rather then speculate here, I will wait until all is set in concrete then advise you all under ASRA News on this forum. I am anticipating that we will need a copy of the first page of any CASA instrument that you hold or have held which concerns this matter.Please remember also, that once the process begins there will most likely be a rush on applications, each of which must be approved and authorised before Llewella can reissue the Certificates. She has other work to do and needs time off as well, so please be patient.Stay tuned.Regards,Waddles.

[NiqueNaque]

Hm, A pessimist is never upset when things go wrong, he merely says 'I told you so'..Paul,I don't know if you remember this as for you it would have been some time ago, but, do you remember the first time you went up to altitude and looked down on the wonderous green parchment below, and then said ... ooo, where is the airstrip? And if you happen to be 25 nM away, that could be well out of your direct sight, and it isn't hard to get lost in that area, I had trouble on my first flight with my instructor in the two seater.. Fly to that pond..[which of the three is he speaking?] fly to those cows [uh, which ones??] .. the ones near the trees.. [ ooo, cows and trees, there's some over there - some over there..] I think you get the picture.To boot it doesn't take long to get lost, its easy for the uninitiated... if you had asked me to navigate to the training ground at Bankstown for my first TIF in a Cessna, you could have lost me on the tarmac.I know that with time and experience you get to know the features of the land by flying very local and then in increasing bigger 'strays' from home base.With a Cross Country endorsement though, you are taught to plan a trip in advance, so yo reduce the opportunities to go lose yourself. It puts a structure in place for the otherwise unknowing.Don't forget that you are an old hand at this Paul, so it is no issue with all the hours that you have flown to navigate back to the strip. I could spend 40 hrs within site of a strip and get a licence to fly, but I might not be able to navigate.Just for an experiment take your next 'green' and absolutely ab inition student pilot on a little jaunt out of site of the strip, then ask him to nav back, take plenty of fuel because it could be interesting where you end up.Cheers,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you

[NiqueNaque]

Hm, A pessimist is never upset when things go wrong, he merely says 'I told you so'..Paul,I don't know if you remember this as for you it would have been some time ago, but, do you remember the first time you went up to altitude and looked down on the wonderous green parchment below, and then said ... ooo, where is the airstrip? And if you happen to be 25 nM away, that could be well out of your direct sight, and it isn't hard to get lost in that area, I had trouble on my first flight with my instructor in the two seater.. Fly to that pond..[which of the three is he speaking?] fly to those cows [uh, which ones??] .. the ones near the trees.. [ ooo, cows and trees, there's some over there - some over there..] I think you get the picture.To boot it doesn't take long to get lost, its easy for the uninitiated... if you had asked me to navigate to the training ground at Bankstown for my first TIF in a Cessna, you could have lost me on the tarmac.I know that with time and experience you get to know the features of the land by flying very local and then in increasing bigger 'strays' from home base.With a Cross Country endorsement though, you are taught to plan a trip in advance, so yo reduce the opportunities to go lose yourself. It puts a structure in place for the otherwise unknowing.Don't forget that you are an old hand at this Paul, so it is no issue with all the hours that you have flown to navigate back to the strip. I could spend 40 hrs within site of a strip and get a licence to fly, but I might not be able to navigate.Just for an experiment take your next 'green' and absolutely ab inition student pilot on a little jaunt out of site of the strip, then ask him to nav back, take plenty of fuel because it could be interesting where you end up.Cheers,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you

[asra]

Nick, you should have been taught from day one how not to get lost while you are legally flying within the 25 nm radius availible to you as a gyroplane certificate holder. This is one of the reasons that CASA did not want us mixing it with correctly trained pilots in the first place. The ultralighters were in the same boat but they were well ahead of us in getting quality training schools. Fortunately we now have some good instructors producing gyro pilots that are responsible, and we have earnt these new privileges.Being able to operate safely within the 25 nm radius is part of gaining a gyroplane pilot certificate, or it should be.Nick you said,Just for an experiment take your next 'green' and absolutely ab inition student pilot on a little jaunt out of site of the strip, then ask him to nav back, take plenty of fuel because it could be interesting where you end up. We would end up back at the airport Nick, because even on the first flight a student should be made aware of the environment we are operating in. There is more to being a pilot than flying the aircraft.[]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

Nick, you should have been taught from day one how not to get lost while you are legally flying within the 25 nm radius availible to you as a gyroplane certificate holder. This is one of the reasons that CASA did not want us mixing it with correctly trained pilots in the first place. The ultralighters were in the same boat but they were well ahead of us in getting quality training schools. Fortunately we now have some good instructors producing gyro pilots that are responsible, and we have earnt these new privileges.Being able to operate safely within the 25 nm radius is part of gaining a gyroplane pilot certificate, or it should be.Nick you said,Just for an experiment take your next 'green' and absolutely ab inition student pilot on a little jaunt out of site of the strip, then ask him to nav back, take plenty of fuel because it could be interesting where you end up. We would end up back at the airport Nick, because even on the first flight a student should be made aware of the environment we are operating in. There is more to being a pilot than flying the aircraft.[]Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[Tim]

"A beginner can't get lost in 6,650 squ klm"? - he he he (as Bob would say)Tim McClureBroken Hill