Revised CAO 95-12 amendment 2

[asra]

quote:Excuse me for being cynical, but I beg to disagree.I did 2 tifs in GA and one tif in ULA before I started on gyros, there was absolutely *no* attention paid to navigating back to the strip, that was on the instructor, I even remember having difficulty with navigating to a building with a 'dome' as I thought the instructor was saying 'foam' through all the noise ... a building with a foam roof... wtf, where the f is that?????? WTF is he going on about??? better ask, ten times won't hurt.... [ Yes - these things do happen ]What are the rules as you go: "Aviate, navigate, communicate"First you learn to aviate, then you learn to navigate, then you learn to communicate. Further, from what I remember of what you did with your students before you got canned, you trained them how to fly and then trained them how to navigate, is that right? ie, Pilot certificate before cross country navs?Just for your own experience try what I have suggested, you may be surprised... don't cue your student, take him away from the strip, out of sight of it and say, behind a hill, just see what happens, my experience says your student would be as lost as a pilot in a cloud, if you ignore this possibility, more fool you. The reason for this is that there is a huge work load on an ab initio student, you're that busy watching the horizon, speed, etc that you quickly lose sight of where the strip is, *especially* if it is a grass strip, and you Paul, will operate off lovely black bitumen, easy to see in a sea of green.I hope this helps you,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for youYou can disagree all you want Nick but it does not make you right. Obviously you, your instructor and the trainer being used are totally different to my trainer, my students, and myself. We don't encounter the problems you talk about.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

quote:Excuse me for being cynical, but I beg to disagree.I did 2 tifs in GA and one tif in ULA before I started on gyros, there was absolutely *no* attention paid to navigating back to the strip, that was on the instructor, I even remember having difficulty with navigating to a building with a 'dome' as I thought the instructor was saying 'foam' through all the noise ... a building with a foam roof... wtf, where the f is that?????? WTF is he going on about??? better ask, ten times won't hurt.... [ Yes - these things do happen ]What are the rules as you go: "Aviate, navigate, communicate"First you learn to aviate, then you learn to navigate, then you learn to communicate. Further, from what I remember of what you did with your students before you got canned, you trained them how to fly and then trained them how to navigate, is that right? ie, Pilot certificate before cross country navs?Just for your own experience try what I have suggested, you may be surprised... don't cue your student, take him away from the strip, out of sight of it and say, behind a hill, just see what happens, my experience says your student would be as lost as a pilot in a cloud, if you ignore this possibility, more fool you. The reason for this is that there is a huge work load on an ab initio student, you're that busy watching the horizon, speed, etc that you quickly lose sight of where the strip is, *especially* if it is a grass strip, and you Paul, will operate off lovely black bitumen, easy to see in a sea of green.I hope this helps you,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for youYou can disagree all you want Nick but it does not make you right. Obviously you, your instructor and the trainer being used are totally different to my trainer, my students, and myself. We don't encounter the problems you talk about.Aussie Paul.[]www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

Actually, I'm glad this came up because I am at the stage where I will be considering navigational exercises, when I work out what sort of fuel consumption my machine has, the flow meter has not been calibrated for a while.Have you considered it in the perspective of taking a wee?The luxury of a fuel flow meter is one which has aluded me until now with the two seater having one fitted. I have used the stop watch to calculate fuel burn in the past. Two hours seems about my max. time up in the sky and I can hold on for that amount of time given I have had a nervous one prior to take-off.I fancy David Bird's approach of intenting to secure his member out on a suspension strut for in-flight relief, when he travels to the Nationals. I'd like a photo of that.PeteBairnsdale,Vic.

[asra]

Actually, I'm glad this came up because I am at the stage where I will be considering navigational exercises, when I work out what sort of fuel consumption my machine has, the flow meter has not been calibrated for a while.Have you considered it in the perspective of taking a wee?The luxury of a fuel flow meter is one which has aluded me until now with the two seater having one fitted. I have used the stop watch to calculate fuel burn in the past. Two hours seems about my max. time up in the sky and I can hold on for that amount of time given I have had a nervous one prior to take-off.I fancy David Bird's approach of intenting to secure his member out on a suspension strut for in-flight relief, when he travels to the Nationals. I'd like a photo of that.PeteBairnsdale,Vic.

[birdy]

Fat chance o that pete.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.birdy, here.

[birdy]

Fat chance o that pete.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.birdy, here.

[asra]

I must say nice play on words Dave.PeteBairnsdale,Vic.

[asra]

I must say nice play on words Dave.PeteBairnsdale,Vic.

[NiqueNaque]

This isn't a pi55ing competition is it?Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you

[NiqueNaque]

This isn't a pi55ing competition is it?Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you

[Brian]

Its cruel when 15 minutes after takeoff and you need to go BUT there isnt place to put down so you have to wait till its time to refuel......3 hours later....BrianPooncarie NSW

[Brian]

Its cruel when 15 minutes after takeoff and you need to go BUT there isnt place to put down so you have to wait till its time to refuel......3 hours later....BrianPooncarie NSW

[NiqueNaque]

Well, yes, Paul.A Cessna does not look like a gyro, nor does a Piper Tomahawk, or for that fact, a skyfox gazelle, neither of them look like gyros, have to agree there.You didn't answer the question though, did you issue a pilot certificate prior to nav as the normal course of business?I hope you aren't forgetting that your training at times does constitute a 'finishing school' for student pilots, the likes of which being such as Ross Bannerman, who had flown before he came to you to 'compress' his training so he could get on with it. I would think that by the time Ross got to you he had a good grasp of the basics, certainly he had his own machine at the time.Given what you say you must make sure your ab initio trainers can read a compass, estimate speed, know the lay of the land and all that before you take off, I'll commend you for your rigour, well done.Rather than being in denial that the issue could arise, please humour me for once and try the suggestion, it could have an interesting outcome.Thank you,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you

[NiqueNaque]

Well, yes, Paul.A Cessna does not look like a gyro, nor does a Piper Tomahawk, or for that fact, a skyfox gazelle, neither of them look like gyros, have to agree there.You didn't answer the question though, did you issue a pilot certificate prior to nav as the normal course of business?I hope you aren't forgetting that your training at times does constitute a 'finishing school' for student pilots, the likes of which being such as Ross Bannerman, who had flown before he came to you to 'compress' his training so he could get on with it. I would think that by the time Ross got to you he had a good grasp of the basics, certainly he had his own machine at the time.Given what you say you must make sure your ab initio trainers can read a compass, estimate speed, know the lay of the land and all that before you take off, I'll commend you for your rigour, well done.Rather than being in denial that the issue could arise, please humour me for once and try the suggestion, it could have an interesting outcome.Thank you,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you

[asra]

quote:Originally posted by pbradleyHave you considered it in the perspective of taking a wee?I fancy David Bird's approach of intenting to secure his member out on a suspension strut for in-flight relief,PeteBairnsdale,Vic.I thought Birdy said it took the place of a suspension strut.Graeme