MTO Rotor Blade.

[Brian]

One of the most damaging things anyone can do to rotors is taxying over rough ground with them stationary or turning over very slowly. To be safe IMHO rotors should be turning at 100 revs preferably [ or more].We lost one member back in the 90"s who taxied quite a distance to his strip with rotors slowly turning. Wasn"t a heavy machine or big rotors.Quote from Birdy [ why the hell any instructers are sendn pilots out with that sorta landn, ina f***n gyro, is beyond my comprehension.

[Disco]

They"re not gyro pilots, they"re factory pilots.

[birdy]

as far as i understandMate, you talk in riddles n you get sum of the terminoligy assabout.But, bout the teetering angles, in S/L flight, with only the dissymetery of lift maken um teeter, youll never get near 14 [ 2x7] degrees before you suffer from retreating stall.Most gyro and blade combinations would be hard pressed to get to a speed where the teeter hinge would get near 4*.[ i think this is wot your after. ???]

[chook]

But, bout the teetering angles, in S/L flight, with only the dissymetery of lift maken um teeter, youll never get near 14 [ 2x7] degrees before you suffer from retreating stall.Most gyro and blade combinations would be hard pressed to get to a speed where the teeter hinge would get near 4*.[ i think this is wot your after. ???]This post has me thinking and we all need a prod every now and again.Birdy we in the "West" do a lot of flying in groups and thinking about it when following another gyro inevitably the rotors are NOT flying horizontally above the machine.I can not recall whether this changes or whether it is unique to each machine. As we tend to fly the disc and not worry about trimming the machine with rudder pedals (it doesn"t seem to improve the fuel consumption and leaves you with a cramped leg anyway) we fly sideways to our aiming point.Now this means that the disc is already at say 4 degrees (at 50kts) before teeter(depending on the crosswind) + 2 degrees of teeter (your estimate of 2+2)so we are now at 6

[RickE]

I know you fellas wont agree but maybe Choppers right, just maybe there is a new breed of instructors for the new generation European style gyros. I for one own an MTO Sport and even though i have only been flying for 14 months feel that the level of training i received has got me out of a few tricky situations, i fly within my experience and capabilities. I will probably never be able to fly as well as some of you veterans but im out ther having a go and loving it.In the past fourteen months i have witnessed two gyro accidents and both involved taxiing with spinning rotors which i believed at the time supported my training procedures of stationary rotors while taxiing.C,mon fellas how about a bit of support for those of us that are new to the sport regardless of what we fly?

[tonydenton]

i really can"t keep up with the terminoligies being used, both technical and in "slang," your all typing too fast. but to have that many accidents

[bones]

Rick I really don"t give a rats ass what anyone flys it just when they don"t quiet understand things nd when they get cranky it shows they " don"t know what they don"t know"

[bones]

Nd on the other thread Murray posted a photo of what was left of the last legend who thought he knew all there was to fly these "simple easy to fly machines"nd I am sick of it to be honest there is no reason for anyone to die, I know if I go everyone will be saying Orr he didn"t know $%^& after all but that be it.Simply if you fly sensibly nd within Ur limits u be right, I push those limitations all the time even today it was close but I relaxed nd I got away with it, I really hope we could all be on the same page but that is never gonna happen unfortunately

[Brian]

Chuck the coning angle into the eqation as well. Rob Patrney puts more coning angle than most other manufactueres into his rotors.I really dont care much for how rotors are set up or if they are

[chook]

Hi Chopper - nothing to do with the coning angle unless the hub bar is bent upwards causing an increase in the teeter angle clearance.I have attached a picture to explain what I have seen. This pic managed to capture the blades in just the right location for my description so you can see that as you look at the photo, the right hand rotor is parallel with the ground, the wheels are both about the same distance off the ground and when you look at the rotor disc you can see the coning angle is symmetrical but the whole "disc" is tilted to the right. Now the ocean is to the left of photo and the rotors may be subject to a slight sea breeze which is not evident on the dust trail behind.My point is that the right hand side teeter angle available is reduced and this is at slow departure and not cruise speed which would further reduce your available teeter angle before it started hitting the stops. So the 14 degrees (7 + 7) is really not a lot.Hope this helps.And Chopper I take your point about instrumentation - we recently had a couple of aircraft heading towards one another along a railway line during a search. I asked them to set their sub scales on their altimeters so that their reference was the same. Fortunately both were the same subscale (inches of mercury). My gyro however uses millibars and now to confuse the situation further lets put meters into the mix. GRRRRRRegards............Chook.

[blakemorem]

Yeh rito Dean were not Gyro pilots were factory pilots and Birdy i speak in riddles .So riddle me this .With the teeter you speak about maybe 6 deg why do we have a AD directive of 14 deg.With all your flight experience and all your posts about high energy maneuvers etc in your honest opinion including pilot experience is MTO sport unsuitable for mustering simple YES or NO.

[blakemorem]

Mike there were no xenons "grandfathered" in they were approved with the standards at the time, the the standards changed so we were able to easily meet those with minimal changes.Mike if I were to offer for you to try nd keep up with me when my blood is hot u be sitting in the top of a tree, nd I"m only a learner try a 360 in 20 mt circle nd Ur getting close.would be happy to trim some trees with ya Bones even at 14 deg teeter don"t really care wot me tail clearance is mate.

[Disco]

Seriously Mike. It"s obvious from listening to you that you guys (new factory pilots) (from only some flying schools) miss parts of your training and I bet you couldn"t jump into and fly my 2 gyros but all pilots could fly yours as long as they are warned about the lack of clearance and special leeway given to the old rules as far as not assuming spinning bits don"t hit other bits.I don"t know anything about mustering but think i could answer your question to birdy. You would want a light machine with good vision out of the seat even with high nose, ruggered undercarriage for rough strips and easy and cheap to repair out back of nowhere.

[birdy]

we fly sideways to our aiming point.Chook, the rotor dont know if your flyn strate, sideways or backwards.I know you fellas wont agree but maybe Choppers right, just maybe there is a new breed of instructors for the new generation European style gyros.A gyro, no matter who built it, is still a gyro, so it should be flown like one. Its wen you start flyn like a FW you get into trouble.Iv never knocked anyone for wot type they fly.Its the way they are INSTRUCTED to fly it that bothers me.Rob Patrney puts more coning angle than most other manufactueres into his rotors.Coz his are more flexable.why do we have a AD directive of 14 degI like easy questions.A: The 6* is for S/L, as i said.is MTO sport unsuitable for mustering simple YES or NO.A: No.And im curious to know why you wanted my oppinion?

[birdy]

I have attached a picture.............And Chook, i can tell you now that the rotors in the pic are NOT at the 3 n 9 oclock position.The advansing blade is closer to 1,30.