MTO Rotor Blade.

[blakemorem]

I"ve been reading the latest Gyro news article extruded rotor blade cracking.It is of some concern looking at the pics.I strained me eyes and noticed a little con vexed deformation on the left side of the lower surface.At first my thought fatigue caused by excessive coning,raising questions of weight limit or flying too slow.But then realized this would be upper not lower surface.There are many possible causes.I see Allan"s view is stressing the other way downwards like rough runways.In flight you can experience ordinary thermals that can really load your rotor.Then there is hinging or flaring off after landing.If you look at the rotor blade its sandwiched inside a sleeve then an upper and lower hub bar.The bolt tolerances are very tight maybe too rigid .I wonder if say the outer two or three holes were elliptical a though or two would allow the flexing of the blades.Get three rulers same arrangement put a mark on the cross sectional outside edge and flex the center one up and down and see what happens, there is lateral plane movement that these bolts don"t allow.Just a thoughtMike.

[chook]

Mike for whatever reason these blades are failing prematurely at the connection point at the blade root. The "huey" overcame these problems by graduating the stress point as in the photo below.Regards...Chook.

[blakemorem]

Hey Chook The new rotor also has graduated stress points in the hub bar with now 9 bolts. I can see how the stress fracture is occurring it"s up to the the manufacturer to sort it out.I have a 150 hr inspection and a 700 hr life in my rotor.There is a replacement option available on the a new design rotor at about $2500 any time during the 700 hr life.I can"t justify it at the moment as my rotor has only done 50 hrs.But I"ll be aware of not causing unnecessary stress on my rotor.I think Allan is on the right path.I"d also be interested to see what"s happening above in the forward aft teetering when flying too slow.Mike.

[chook]

Mike if this had happened to a car manufacturer they would initiate an immediate recall and replace them for free.MTO obviously understand the problem and know the fix - at your cost.If you are worried, one of our guys over here straps a "go pro" onto various locations on his gyro and has discovered some interesting stuff.I do recall seeing some footage of a heli rotor (I can"t recall the model) where the camera was strapped to the head looking outward along the rotor. The flexing and wobbling that was captured was normal but frightening. The wonders of modern alloys!

[blakemorem]

Hey Chook... Nah not worried... fatigue fractures, Its a rare thing but worthy of inspection. I think there is more to this story than we are told.You know every landing is unique and some not exactly text book.How many hard landings had that MTO done.etc.etc.Any hinging flying below 55 knots pitching too hard on stick....no.Hmm,See i mortgaged half me bloody house on a MTO...cause I"m not really that serious about flying... MTO is a dam good Gyroplane I just hope there is not mass hysteria about MTO by new owners.Ya see the boys at Cabolture had a run in with Skyranch a while ago and i don"t think they have really got over it, I just hope there is no us and them and the issues are looked at scientifically with forensic inspection without bias.Allan Wardell has assured that in the artificial and is on the right path there has been some excessive stresses on those rotors and maybe life fatigue but i don"t think we need to panic yet..Open for suggestions.We can see how its happening but not why its happening.Maybe some more investigation.Mike

[asra]

"The boys at Caboolture had a run in with Skyranch" ???Please explain.Unfortunately a few importers now and then try and get around rules and make more work for the people( on the ASRA board) involved in compliance and "The boys at Caboolture" are the poor suckers that have to sort things out.We have been concerned from day one about the recommended taxiing procedures for "New Generation" gyros,not just MTO.The advertised 2000 hour TBO on MTO rotors does not apply in Australia,and as far as we are aware no MT rotor in the world has reached that figure.

[blakemorem]

Murry just going on what Ive heard witch to me is also cause for concern. Not just cracks in rotor blades.I remember in the early days out at Watts Bridge when an MTO landed a fella marched straight out of the shed and checked the clearance of rotor blade to the tail which has been resolved with a new gimble block.There are Zenons out there that

[bones]

Mike 2 things.First please name the xenons,, nd please at least the spell the f ing name right, as they all should have had the mods to more than comply with the rules, the tech manager has the photos to prove this.nd if u continue this line it not gonna be pretty.Second if u think a tight 360 is 200 mt circle u don"t know ****, nd it is painfully obviously u know less about cattle so I suggest u drop that argument too.

[asra]

Firstly ASRA has a duty of care to ASRA members. Not MTO,ELA,Xenon or any other company.Secondly Mark Regan did extensive research in writing that article.It is entirely factual.Third ,I don"t care if they are the old series of blades, gyro"s are still flying on them.Four, I have been for some time now trying to ascertain hours flown overseas on MTO blades but with no success.There has been strong campaigning over the years for ASRA to extend the TBO on MTO blades to the European standard. It is entirely possible that ASRA may limit the hours in service of these type of blades as well as the hub bars unless manufacturers can put forward conclusive evidence supporting longer TBO"s.Five, read number one again.

[blakemorem]

XENON, (there I fixed it for you since you can"t even read)From what I"ve heard there were a few early Gyro planes grandfathered because of tail clearance.Is that right Murry.Second I can"t understand the AD on MTO regarding 14 Deg teeter angle and sudden or abrupt control input.Suggesting Not suitable for mustering.So as far as 360 deg turn 200m radius what can a Tecnam do that a MTO Sport can"t.I"m questioning the integrity of the AD was it entirely necessary.Oh and about pain Bones I was raised on the land in the Central west NSW during the 80"s drought.Living third world standard,brushing your teeth with soap cause you can"t afford toothpaste,I remember a teacher saying "if i hear that blasphemy again I"ll wash your mouth with soap" I replied I brush me teeth with soap every morning.Tuna and rice goes a long way.Have to wait you"re turn to scoop water out of the bottom of the water tank with a bucket and cup for a bath. Then the old man gets on the hard stuff good old Whiskey then the fights the hole time trying to beat the odds,then the me mum packs her bags an cleared out with me little brother to town and gets hit by a car cause he knows nothing about street traffic real hard times Bones.Pain"s good for you... toughens you up.I should write a book its been suggested I still hear about life on the land occasionally and it brings back those memories city folk don"t understand that life still happening today.So back to the mustering.I understand there is a basic standard of Gyroplane and a standard for certified two seater. As far as airworthiness why two standards.So tell me more about mustering Bones do you really need to fly to the aircraft"s limits...Mike

[bones]

Mike there were no xenons "grandfathered" in they were approved with the standards at the time, the the standards changed so we were able to easily meet those with minimal changes.Mike if I were to offer for you to try nd keep up with me when my blood is hot u be sitting in the top of a tree, nd I"m only a learner try a 360 in 20 mt circle nd Ur getting close.

[birdy]

try a 360 in 20 mt circleAnd not just one.............

[birdy]

flown a tight 360 deg turn 3 times round maybe 200mtr ground dia not exceeding 14 deg on the hub I don"t think that"s necessary while musteringMate, he"s onto it :

[blakemorem]

Six you haven"t spoken to Mick Post at skyranch before the article there is a large resource of test data.Seven the question I asked about 50hr inspection after 500 hr life involve sending away for x ray and then get a 300 hr Cert of airworthiness. First. I respect the duty of care of ASRA without question.Second Is Mark Regan aware of the life of the rotors (Grey import) 3 witnesses observing extreme flying.Third Gyros are still flying on them and still faultless.Wouldn"t the 100 inspection be reasonable with the exception of known incident warranting an immediate inspection.Forth Ring Mick post he"d be more than happy to provide the information.I"m happy with the existing TBO and 100hr inspection I fully appreciate the seriousness of the crack.Considering all evidence would you consider 50hr inspections after 500hr life a little extreme.A pointless exercise if sending away for x ray is involved limited to 500 hr based on economics alone.Then $3200 only if Gmbh review the 700hr life policy otherwise its full price.Five I"m not going to bother.I generally don"t bother with ASRA forum but this issue is of some concern and warranted my response.I hope this AD is considered carefully.With all due respect Murry I know I"ve given you the Sh1ts but it"s an important issue and all facts and data need to be considered.Its not a popularity contest.

[Disco]

flown a tight 360 deg turn 3 times round maybe 200mtr ground dia not exceeding 14 deg on the hub I don"t think that"s necessary while musteringMate, he"s onto it :I was just about to ask what a 200m 360 turn had to do with anything... and where 14 degrees or something was involved.