Training Syllabus

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Hypothetically , If ASRA was to introduce a new training syllabus, what would you like to see in there and why? What do you think would be the minimum for new pilots to be competent at?

[birdy]

Iv never red the TS, so i dont know wots init.

[mad max]

For the practical I used to expect 3 text book take-offs and landings while my hands were on my lap. However so many instructors were killed and maimed by students over the years that I stopped doing it and now my hand rarely leaves the stick. Consequently I"m an old fart instructor still alive and healthy soon to retire with lots of storys.

[MadMuz]

I would like to see students trained in very basic but reliable and modernised 2 seat, open stick frame machines with no prerotators, so they get an understanding of rotor handling and management and more seat of the pants flying, once they can handle rotors and basic flying, then they can progress to more complicated and heavier machines..... if they still want to. Hang on, just doing up my flame proof suit

[mad max]

I agree MM. The best trainer is a Benson / Rosco type side by side and make the student hand swing the rotors and work them up. My problem was most of my students were cowboys and they mostly had had broken limbs in the past and jacked up with the pain of swinging blades. One crazy bugger lit up a cig. when I was taxing to the "runway" I screamed "WTF are you doing" and he didn"t know what I was on about ;D All text book landings had to be with no power.

[RickE]

Definitely agree with the importance of learning rotor management but I can"t say I agree with having to learn how to hand spin. The technology is there why not use it, use the pre rotator to get the rotor to 50 or 100 rpm and learn how to build up the rotor rpm from there. Besides that there are a number of machines on the market today that would be impossible to safely hand spin ie Cavalon, M24, Xenon etc.I know a lot of you won"t agree but I would be happy to teach that if your pre rotator is not working the machine is grounded until it is fixed, after all the majority of us fly for fun not for a living.

[aussie_paul]

Definitely agree with the importance of learning rotor management but I can"t say I agree with having to learn how to hand spin. The technology is there why not use it, use the pre rotator to get the rotor to 50 or 100 rpm and learn how to build up the rotor rpm from there. Besides that there are a number of machines on the market today that would be impossible to safely hand spin ie Cavalon, M24, Xenon etc.I know a lot of you won"t agree but I would be happy to teach that if your pre rotator is not working the machine is grounded until it is fixed, after all the majority of us fly for fun not for a living.My Firebird POH says that the machine is unserviceable if the pre rotator is unusable.Aussie Paul.

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Yeah Rick I agree with what you are saying. I believe that it is important to show hand starting techniques with the machine engine not running and brakes on. After the student is competent in that, pre spin the blades to rrpm that the student can hand spin to This would be mainly for safety reasons. I am surprised that there are not accidents with people climbing over the machine to hand spin blades with the engine running, or after you have jumped down, pull the rip chord whilst in a hurry and kick out the wheel chock. Hand spinning blades can be dangerous in the early stages of learning as it is being rushed as not to let rrpm drop otherwise you will have to get back up there and try again exhausted.I do believe that there should not be restricted licenses or instructors. Everybody should be trained in rotor management. To me the "restricted" bit means no rotor management and handstarting means rotor management, even if that means a short burst of the prespinner to 50-80 rrpm.Iv never red the TS, so i dont know wots init.Birdy, didn"t I see your name in the instructor column awhile back?

[MadMuz]

My Firebird POH says that the machine is unserviceable if the pre rotator is unusable.Aussie Paul. That"s unfortunate Paul.... maybe you need a better machine than a firebird?? ;DJust kidding.... but I would definitely get a black texta or crayon or some white out and just remove the "un"

[davidbuzz]

Less of a focus on "keep the rotors back as far as they go"

[Disco]

What else would you do with the stick?

[davidbuzz]

Stick position at takeoff is relative to groundspeed. ... at least the way I fly...

[MadMuz]

I tend to agree Buzz, with mine with 23 gerrys, once I hand spun them and started to taxy, if the stick is right back, once they got up about half speed, the nose wheel would start to lift, so the stick would have to be allowed forward a bit until they were really wizzing and ready to fly.... I am amazed that people often say "stick right back and leave it there" and stuff like that, to me it would be better to say "stick back as far as necessary" ..... sure at first start of taxying you might have the stick well back, possibly full back, but it wont necessarily stay right back.... it depends on wind, taxy speed, type of rotor blades....That"s why I say people need to learn how to read the blades and what they are needing.... to learn the idiosyncrasies of the rotors they are running and treat them accordingly.These comments are regarding more basic, old school gyros, not modern factory machines with POH to follow.

[Russell]

Lots of " instruction " going on here, follow it up guys and get endorsed. Common grype out there, is too few instructors available around the ridges.....so some folks say. .?Infact.......guys are stepping away from it, for various reasons. 2 things guaranteed......you just cover costs, and you need lots of patience.....( newbies are doing their level best to roll your machine into a ball, and saying sorry mate ) insurance.........forget that, if....you get cover, and that"s a big if, the premiums are crippling.It"s apparent that old school pilots generally prefer open framed machines, but the new age guys like the cabined turn key club....fair enough. ( I like them both .....horses for courses, open for yank and bank, cabined for trips ) so actually you all need 2 gyros.

[WEST OZ FLYER]

Lots of " instruction " going on here, follow it up guys and get endorsed. Common grype out there, is too few instructors available around the ridges.....so some folks say. .?Infact.......guys are stepping away from it, for various reasons. 2 things guaranteed......you just cover costs, and you need lots of patience.....( newbies are doing their level best to roll your machine into a ball, and saying sorry mate ) insurance.........forget that, if....you get cover, and that"s a big if, the premiums are crippling.It"s apparent that old school pilots generally prefer open framed machines, but the new age guys like the cabined turn key club....fair enough. ( I like them both .....horses for courses, open for yank and bank, cabined for trips ) so actually you all need 2 gyros.