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Nick, I don't wish to hinder your experiments but the main reason that I don't run "overhead" radiators is that I have never seen someone suffer from scalding burns yet from a regulation rollover. I do not feel that a pilot would be so lucky with your setup.Don't worry about the water pump, it will work to 100% efficiency in any location, as long as it is fully submersed. How long is that prop?Tim McClureBroken Hill
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Howdy Nique Naque ! I am concerned about the thing comeing off there, welds brakeing that sort'a thing, you have used some mighty small pieces of metal in there in verious pointsand I do hope when you ground down the welds to make it purdy you didn't actually take off the metal that was holding it on thereI realise its a bit late now , but I think I would have used thicker metal than you have and probly layed the radiator horizonal, though I realise why you did it that way and i am sure the radiator will cool better the way you mounted it .... just be sure to check that thing for cracks and popped welds as part of your pre-flight... I think being scolded by hot antifreeze is one of the more painfull things to have happen to a person, but in a roll over in that beast I think the hot water is one of the lesser worries, depending of corse upon the crash ....One time , I wound up with a motorcycle on top me, as we tumbled to a stop and the oil came out the over flowall over my leg.... it took a few seconds to realise that something was burning and that it was me.... pushing the light bike off me i had at least a quart of realy hot oil on my left leg.... talk about stripping fast ! , my brother in law came over the hill about then and couldn't figure out what the heck was going on ! HAHAHAHthere i was waveing my pants trying to cool'em down so I could put the things back on ! he said Uh.... Bob...... and burst out laughing ! and I joined him ! it had to look silly ! ......hehehehehe Anyway Nic i think that will solve the heating problem.... but may make other problems crop up so keep a real close eye on it please ! if it don't cure the heating problem I'll alwayse will have thought it should'a ! good thinkin'C yaBob........" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
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Howdy Nique Naque ! I am concerned about the thing comeing off there, welds brakeing that sort'a thing, you have used some mighty small pieces of metal in there in verious pointsand I do hope when you ground down the welds to make it purdy you didn't actually take off the metal that was holding it on thereI realise its a bit late now , but I think I would have used thicker metal than you have and probly layed the radiator horizonal, though I realise why you did it that way and i am sure the radiator will cool better the way you mounted it .... just be sure to check that thing for cracks and popped welds as part of your pre-flight... I think being scolded by hot antifreeze is one of the more painfull things to have happen to a person, but in a roll over in that beast I think the hot water is one of the lesser worries, depending of corse upon the crash ....One time , I wound up with a motorcycle on top me, as we tumbled to a stop and the oil came out the over flowall over my leg.... it took a few seconds to realise that something was burning and that it was me.... pushing the light bike off me i had at least a quart of realy hot oil on my left leg.... talk about stripping fast ! , my brother in law came over the hill about then and couldn't figure out what the heck was going on ! HAHAHAHthere i was waveing my pants trying to cool'em down so I could put the things back on ! he said Uh.... Bob...... and burst out laughing ! and I joined him ! it had to look silly ! ......hehehehehe Anyway Nic i think that will solve the heating problem.... but may make other problems crop up so keep a real close eye on it please ! if it don't cure the heating problem I'll alwayse will have thought it should'a ! good thinkin'C yaBob........" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "
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Tim,I thank you for your foresight, quite frankly your suggestion is one that I had not considered. For my own edification I would like to know how a pilot could suffer scalding burns from a roll over from an overhead radiator versus an underslung radiator. I assume based on Brian's response that overhead radiators don't nominally exist, so I would assume the opportunity has never presented as a result, consider me to be an experiment....With the rig I have and assuming a forward roll over, as they normally are, the radiator and frame would normally be protected by the length of the mast, but let us say that the mast fails, bringing the weight of the machine to bear on the radiator frame. The machine is very probably pitching nose down after the nose wheel digs in and flips onto its back, the mast cops it and snaps off... let us say at the engine mount where the friction clamp is located, it bends back and lays against the radiator frame which deforms and then lays into the prop arc, stopping the engine. The radiator frame is made from 30 x 30 x 1.6 Steel RHS [ yes, heavy but at hand at the time] It is bolted onto the engine frame and peels back, taking the radiator with it. The radiator is connected with rubber hoses and these deflect, the top one travels with the frame and the bottom one does as well. The M8 bolts in the engine frame and the engine frame bend before the RHS does, the rubber connections shear off at the bottom having suffered the most deflection and hot water spews forward out of the radiator [ oops - ah, this is the one with the long hose, it won't fail first, the core of the radiator might though] . However, being held at 60C the water is not so hot as to cause so much damage so quickly, you need 70 for that, though 60 is very uncomfortable and can leave 1st degree burns.I see where you are coming from, it is a real risk, but as with flying, it is one that I assume when so doing. What I've typed in above is one possible b-s scenario of millions. To be honest, I think the risk of things falling off the frame and ending up in the prop or the rotors would be more concerning than being burnt by the water out of the cooling system. I['d be more worried about my welds failing than a rollover, though a roll over is more likely.The Prop:By Jack Allen - 72" dia x 44" pitch, sounds like a lancaster bomber from what I'm told...Cheers,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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Tim,I thank you for your foresight, quite frankly your suggestion is one that I had not considered. For my own edification I would like to know how a pilot could suffer scalding burns from a roll over from an overhead radiator versus an underslung radiator. I assume based on Brian's response that overhead radiators don't nominally exist, so I would assume the opportunity has never presented as a result, consider me to be an experiment....With the rig I have and assuming a forward roll over, as they normally are, the radiator and frame would normally be protected by the length of the mast, but let us say that the mast fails, bringing the weight of the machine to bear on the radiator frame. The machine is very probably pitching nose down after the nose wheel digs in and flips onto its back, the mast cops it and snaps off... let us say at the engine mount where the friction clamp is located, it bends back and lays against the radiator frame which deforms and then lays into the prop arc, stopping the engine. The radiator frame is made from 30 x 30 x 1.6 Steel RHS [ yes, heavy but at hand at the time] It is bolted onto the engine frame and peels back, taking the radiator with it. The radiator is connected with rubber hoses and these deflect, the top one travels with the frame and the bottom one does as well. The M8 bolts in the engine frame and the engine frame bend before the RHS does, the rubber connections shear off at the bottom having suffered the most deflection and hot water spews forward out of the radiator [ oops - ah, this is the one with the long hose, it won't fail first, the core of the radiator might though] . However, being held at 60C the water is not so hot as to cause so much damage so quickly, you need 70 for that, though 60 is very uncomfortable and can leave 1st degree burns.I see where you are coming from, it is a real risk, but as with flying, it is one that I assume when so doing. What I've typed in above is one possible b-s scenario of millions. To be honest, I think the risk of things falling off the frame and ending up in the prop or the rotors would be more concerning than being burnt by the water out of the cooling system. I['d be more worried about my welds failing than a rollover, though a roll over is more likely.The Prop:By Jack Allen - 72" dia x 44" pitch, sounds like a lancaster bomber from what I'm told...Cheers,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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Bob,Cheers, yes, waving your hot pants all over the place, no wonder your brother in law was worried...Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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Bob,Cheers, yes, waving your hot pants all over the place, no wonder your brother in law was worried...Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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Nick, did you work out why your original radiator didnt work or did it ??BrianPooncarie NSW
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Nick, did you work out why your original radiator didnt work or did it ??BrianPooncarie NSW
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Brian,I got to the stage of saying 'stuff it' and put the larger one on.I suspected that in the underslung position the old one 'may' have suffered from the heat being rejected from the exhaust manifolds, but it was a factor that I didn't have time to quantify, in order to establish it I would have had to fiddle with it for another ten hours or so, and it was getting to me in terms of time and cost, so I went for the sure fire 'over kill' option at zero materials cost. I think, in comparing the size of your radiator and the old one it would appear your radiator is roughly 25% larger than my old one. I placed a call with Ric Douglas about his design, he uses two small radiators mounted [now] near his prop and at each side of the redrive, not too different from a Rotax set up, Ric hasn't returned the call as he is currently busy doing some engineering work in China, but what I wanted to establish was the radiator volume he uses so I could compare with the old radiator. You might be able to help by providing the hieght, width and depth of the core of your radiator so I have some numbers to run, some of this data might end up in the 'what not to do' page, ie, do not undersize your radiator.Bob K.I appreciate what you are saying about the welds, the RHS I used is 30 x 30 x 2 steel, it is solid and is welded to a 30 x 30 x 4 angle, the angle is held into position by 3 M8 bolts with both nylock nuts and spring washers. I am going to add some bracing to the engine support frame to triangulate it and take the shake out in the fore - aft direction. I once had my welds x - rayed for a test by a contractor who wanted to fight with me over the quality of them.. the guy who did the x-rays called them 'gorilla welds', ugly but strong, which is the measure of about everything I do, ugly, but strong... as you may have noticed in my posts, using both ugly and strong words to get a point across.Due to the 'backyard' nature of my work shop - two trestles on the grass - a 'handy arc' welder with the usual satincraft welding rods I was cautious, some of it is a weld on a weld after grinding out little flux porosities in the work, believe me, I have no interest in having it fall apart on me.Cheers - have to go to xxxx to make some $$$$$$$.Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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Brian,I got to the stage of saying 'stuff it' and put the larger one on.I suspected that in the underslung position the old one 'may' have suffered from the heat being rejected from the exhaust manifolds, but it was a factor that I didn't have time to quantify, in order to establish it I would have had to fiddle with it for another ten hours or so, and it was getting to me in terms of time and cost, so I went for the sure fire 'over kill' option at zero materials cost. I think, in comparing the size of your radiator and the old one it would appear your radiator is roughly 25% larger than my old one. I placed a call with Ric Douglas about his design, he uses two small radiators mounted [now] near his prop and at each side of the redrive, not too different from a Rotax set up, Ric hasn't returned the call as he is currently busy doing some engineering work in China, but what I wanted to establish was the radiator volume he uses so I could compare with the old radiator. You might be able to help by providing the hieght, width and depth of the core of your radiator so I have some numbers to run, some of this data might end up in the 'what not to do' page, ie, do not undersize your radiator.Bob K.I appreciate what you are saying about the welds, the RHS I used is 30 x 30 x 2 steel, it is solid and is welded to a 30 x 30 x 4 angle, the angle is held into position by 3 M8 bolts with both nylock nuts and spring washers. I am going to add some bracing to the engine support frame to triangulate it and take the shake out in the fore - aft direction. I once had my welds x - rayed for a test by a contractor who wanted to fight with me over the quality of them.. the guy who did the x-rays called them 'gorilla welds', ugly but strong, which is the measure of about everything I do, ugly, but strong... as you may have noticed in my posts, using both ugly and strong words to get a point across.Due to the 'backyard' nature of my work shop - two trestles on the grass - a 'handy arc' welder with the usual satincraft welding rods I was cautious, some of it is a weld on a weld after grinding out little flux porosities in the work, believe me, I have no interest in having it fall apart on me.Cheers - have to go to xxxx to make some $$$$$$$.Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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So slashmeister Woz,There is hope yet...Thanks,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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So slashmeister Woz,There is hope yet...Thanks,Nicholas TomlinAlarmist - www.alarmist.com.au - we scare for you
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Looking forward to hearing the results of the testing Nick. Good luck !
BrianPooncarie NSW
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Looking forward to hearing the results of the testing Nick. Good luck !BrianPooncarie NSW
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