Re workin me gyro one more time !

[asra]

Ummm would you believe 185lbs ot 195 lbs .... have no idea what that is in Kelos.... never got into that drug dealing stuff cuz i'm a good boy ! so don't know what a kelo is ! . hehehe Yah I know , its going to be quite a feat to get my butt and machine off the ground up here at this altitude....4800ft ASL ... if and i do mean IF it even can ! time will tell ! ... if not .... more modifications !!!!C ya !Bob....." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

Your not the first to say that Ozy ! I just hope going a bit faster at takeoff will make up the diferance I dunno ..Here is a Pic of my gyro Now !still gott'a paint and get the rotor on it .... but what'a ya think ?think it'll fly ?Bob.....Image Insert: 63.13 KB" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[Greg Mitchell]

G'Day Sam/Birdy,Check the top of the mast region, 'KING'. This craft is currently owned by Brad King, top bloke. It is having an engine change out at present. Brad will have the Golden Butterfly, owned by Bob, pictured with Larry Neal,at Mentone PRA Convention next week. I took this pic just before Larry took me for a ride today at Olney, Texas. I wont get into a rave here about just how good this 'ship' is. I got to fly it and land it with the GFLG. Both ships are running long hub bars and DW's. I'll post a couple of pics in the photo thread.OK tried to shrink some pics but having trouble with the US techno stuff. Sorry Bob, not wanting to highjack the thread. I'll send pics to a Mate back home for posting.Cheers,Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.com

[asra]

BobYour machine finaly looks right !!!Only one thing, you stated earlier your running a 447, so flying your machine at an ALT. in exess of 4000ft means your machine will need to be as light as possible.Looking at the rear positioning of your rotor head being mounted behind your mast, would mean your tail weight must be quite high.If so, try and shed some from it , and you will probably find yourself moving the head on top of, or, forward of the mast.This is only my perseption, and if right, a minimum requirement based on your weight, power, and altitude.Image Insert: 83.95

[asra]

The above Gyro has a ply frame tail which is coverd with Stits fabric like what is used on the Challenger aircraft.Very very light, and effective, this gyro also runs a Rotax 447 and flies realy well !!!!Regards Sam.

[asra]

Oh neet tail there on that one ..I alwayse like the ones with more rudder area ! yah ! I know the tail is heavy ! its out of 1/2" plywood alot heaver than it needs to be .. it actually held up the tail section when i flopped the gyro on its side as a tail dragger last year ... !. if needed i will probly go with a metal PLATE tail.......at least that is what i was thinking at first , but now i am not so sure thats such a good alternative because of the weight . the next idea is to fabricate a tail out of alum sheeting giving it an airfoil shape for the Horizonal stablizer as well as the rudder( though it may be more truble than its worth for the rudder ) but i know i can make up a tail section alot lighter by useing thin alum sheeting and a couple of alum tubes as spars .... i think that will probly be this winters project , makeing up a new light tail section ... but for now I'll try to use what I have and see if i can do some crow- hops ! heck even if i just made the tail out of 1/4" plywood it would weigh half as much ! HEHEHHEHE !but the problem with 1/4" plywood is the warping ! by spring time I'ed have a waffle on the back of the gyro ! that stuff just warps all over ... corse with a coat of fiberglass reson on it it might not .... but up goes the weight again ! ....I don't think Cloth would be a good idea here.... our cats would probly tear it to shreds, if not them probly a Racoon... or a pine cone fall through the thing ... needs to be tough here ! as i store it under a tarp in the winter.... trying to keep the 3 ft of snow off it ! and Some times i'm not suscessfull ! .... the first HS I made bit the dirt because of the snow load ! and it was alot smaller ! hehehehe ...... No problem Greg ! I'll keep posting my progress here anyway ! so post what ya like ! its cool ! I thought it was interesting stuff ! Sami Is that your Gyro ? looks purdy neet ! I love the beafie looking rotor head ya got up there ! nice and Stout lookin'sure looks like small wheels to me fer dirt landing ... they work ok for ya ? And all those insterments ! .... Ok where is the kill switch ? heheheheheheheh ! nuttin' like an un-obstructed view of the world ! My craft has that big insterment pannel , and believe me i have considered takeing it off many times.... but I love the silly insterments ! ...can't win fer the loosin ! HAHAHHA !Catch ya all later !Bob......" Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

Bob,1/4" ply tail plane. Still a bit heavier than what StanL is suggesting but a lot lighter than you've got and very easy and quick to make. No warping (that I can see anyway) and very effective.Safe Flying ... ding Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment

[asra]

Ok I have to ask you guys ! How come most of youz Aussies have the Horizonal stablizer mounted to the keel ? and not up into the fast air of the prop wash ? .... what ? no need ?and by the way Ding thats a nice looking gyro there ! is that a 2 ft hub bar ? looks it . and are those real mountians ? or did ya paint them in just for looks ? I can see a little warpage !, on the right bottom side of the HS ... not much but some ! maginify that by about 150% is what I get even with the thing sealed and painted,( I thought that would cure the warpage...it didn't ) Infact the HS I have on my machine is warped.... only thing keeping it from looking like a corkscrew is the steel bars i have bolted to it to stablize and strighten it out ! I realy don't want to have to replace the tail every year... so I think i'm going to go metalI would rather just go with plate ... easy to make up and install , and probly lighter than what i have on there.... what thickness of metal should I use ? 1/8" plate alum. 3/16 is too heavy, i have a chunk of that outside I am wondering if 1/8" will be too ! because my HS is 34" on one side 36" on the other thats purdy long ! and I want to keep it big even though now that the Thrustline offset is alot lower , still want a big HS . Lee Shamburg has a Alum plate tail on his gyro , works fine and hasn't had any truble with it that i know of There is still alot i can do to lighten up my gyro and the tail in pictular.... just havn't got arround to it yet ! I guess I'll make a lighter tail a priority....there is alot of steel back there right now holding that plywood tail togather ! I have 2 lengths of 12" 2X2X1/8" STEEL angle under the HS bolting them to the vertical stablizer , they could go ! ... and a stablizeing post out of 1/8" plate that goes from the frame ,angle there, to the angle supporting the HS... this is all welded togather and makes the tail quite strongbut seeings as it still took the support bars to un twist the vert stablizer there's hardly any point to it now ! .... Another thing i might do it make the tail out of 1/4" plywood and make it easy to remove so i can store it in the house... even thoughthe 1/2" was stored in the house for half the winter and still worped badly ....theoretically if the wood is SEALED good it can't warp.... I'm not a carpenter so I dunno.... the humidy here in the winter is usually arround 80 to 90% when its warm enough not to snow .... and the moisture gets into everything .... even my Rotor ! it then froze and split the glass and I had to patch it up again ( at least i found the hole where the water got in at ! hehehehehehe I store the Rotor inder the eves of the awning attached to my trailer .........thanks for the info and pointers guys ! its greatly appreaciated ! Catcha' later !Bob....." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

BobThe above picture reg. G169 is not of my gyro, but of a fellow Aussie flier.If you would like to see a pic of mine, go to the Piloting techniques/Suggestions part of the forum then see Flat Spin, page 2. If you notice my tail is made of sheet metal. Using simple sheet metal wrapped around an alluminium tube or box spar, then rivitted to it and then also rivetting the sheet ends. This is super simple, very light, and quite strong. The 2 fins are made of solid sheet.The weight of it is so light that if you consider the amount of surface area, the movement arm distance, 24 ampH battery position, the Rotax 582 water cooled, all mounted behind the hang point, but still the rotor head is mounted infront of the 5 degree swept back mast. The hang test was carried out with 30 lt. of fuel.This is all only F.Y.I and I am in no way telling you what to do,but what worked for me !!!!!Hope this helps.Regards Sam.

[Echo]

Sam, thats a top looking spot in the pic of G 3027 - where is it? Echo

[asra]

EchoYou better ask Ding as its his gyro.Sam.

[asra]

Cool thanks Sami ! I'll have a look see ! what was the thickness of the sheetmetal you used on the HS Sami ? do you remember ?...HAY Ozy ! now there's an idea ! I do have a 70 or 80 hp Polarus Sno-mobile engine in the back yard waiting to be put back togather .... its about 3/4 re assembledfound i am missing the magneto and stopped ! ( what ya want for free eh ? ) if i was to scrounge up a mag for it that would definately kick my gyro in the Arrrrs ! hehehehehehehave to come up with a re-drive though .... but thats much later !.... c ya !Bob......." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

Ok I'm a bit confuzilated here Sami ...which one is yours the Monark or the Dragonfly ? both have the T tails ... which i Like ... i designed one ages ago for my gyro but desided againxt it because anchoring it to the framewas going to be hard to make it solid ! .... I don't like wigglie tail sections on gyros ! unless perhaps their female . thanks for pointing that Out Sami... the Flat spin thing isn't something I want to incounter unless i can recover from it ! somthing else to consider I guess. I liked and designed a "T" tail for my gyro thinking that getting the HS in the center thrustline was the best bet for the HS ...However, I sense then learned that the prop actually sends a cone of dead air back to the tail at the center of the prop... so you actually have a sort'a SMOKE RING of fast moveing air ..... not a cylinder of fast air.... and that fast air is also spryling rapidlywhich will give you the P factor , or twist the craft.... from what I've read the best place for the HS is in between the center of the prop thrust line and the bottom edge of the prop..... in the fast air off the prop.... ... this position Minimizes the P factor a bit more than having it at the center of the thrustline, it is in the fastest moving air you can get off the prop at least on the avrage because it starts in the middle of the blade and works out to the end of the prop as you go further along the HS out to the end . However.... it doesn't do much for the Flat spin problem .... there is only 15" of rudder showing under my HS where as with the " T " tail the entire rudder would be available for control.... to contend with the flat spin problem . perhaps as Nique Naque sujested adding a bit of foward lean to the rudder would help combat the problem. ???..... I'm kind'a devided now on what to do for the tail shape ... I do think an all metal tail is the answer for me sheet metal over a spar seams the fast easy answer to be sure.... but T tail or like I have now .... flying tail or solid with a Rudder....I think with the abuse this gyro of mine gets I better go with the solid connection to the frame and a large rudder... though A flying tail gives the most you can get.... IF you can anchor them solid enough !!! gott'a think on this a while ! thanks for the info !Bob....." Momm'a alwayse told me , Son the impossable is only a little bit Harder... and ya know I do believe She was RIGHT ! "

[asra]

Bob KIt's located at Biggenden in Queensland. A little town about 350k (210 miles)North of Brisbane and about 1 hr off the coast. It's 3 hrs drive south for me to get there but the drives worthwhile as there are other gyro flyers that meet there once a month. The strips great for training and the local council encourage us to fly from there free of charge - they're even talking about building a shelter we'll be able to use and putting in a cross strip.I'll try and get some shots of the area next time I go down ... work's being a little demanding at the moment and I'm currently trying to get a local strip organised and prepared so it might be a little while.Meanwhile, you'all stay on the ground till you've got that training ya hear []Safe Flying ... ding Good judgment comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgment

[asra]

Ding,If that's Mt Walsh in the background then I guess you must take off and land during ceasefires of the big-bore shooters next door - or do you prefer the added excitement of incoming live fire? I get the feeling Bob would enjoy that too.