Hub Bars and Starter Motors

[Brian]

John, I for one would love a "friction drive type" that is capable of spinning the rotors up around the 200 revs but any system has to be as light and as reliable as the starer motor. In the USA there is a fellow who has a great system but its expensive and also doesnt last long till something breaks. I personally have full confidence in the starter motor system,mainly due to the number of hours that been accumulated with such systems.[Well over 2000 hours]Its interesting John that you mention CLT, we hear so much about it and the way it transforms gyros from being instant killers to wonderfull safe flying machines with no vices etc etc. I do however look forward to flying a CLT gyro so that I can experience the diference for myself !!!You never know how far you can go, till you get there !

[asra]

Dunno Nick,I think you know my expertise is more with people than things.But I guess you could make some generalisations, just as there are people who reach their mature years without becoming too dotty, there appear to be well kept gyros that are in good nick with a lot of hours on them.I have no idea what the average age of the fleet is, its probably a question for Adrian, but be kind to him he has had a bit on his plate recently.Brian you're relying on the HOSO argument I mentioned in my last post. Nobody knows how long you can get away with starting your rotor with a 'sledge hammer'. What if testing showed that at 2050 hours 20% failed. Of course you would never know whether you were in the 80% or the 20% until it let go.I must admit to being baffled as to why nobody seems very interested in a simple soft start. I think it must be the 'I just want to go flying mentality', which I think is related to 'Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!'The system that Albert Einstein Sikorsky showed on his machine looked pretty good, but I think I recall that he had the driven wheel out of the soft stuff, making it more liklely to 'flat spot' than if he had it the other way around.LlewellaWe are responsible for what we do, no matter how we feel.

[asra]

[asra]

Hi Johnthe driven wheel is a modified skateboard wheel which gives you about 80 to 100 starts before it wears out.they cost about 2 bucks each and the best ones are off rental roller skates...quite hard...the softer poly eurathane ones spin up heaps quicker but fall apart and even melt.I still give the blades a push just to get them moving before i belt up and that eliminates the flat spoting...but regardless the sliping shapes it round again any way..its now done over a 1000 hrs of flying and is still all the original conponents except for about 12 skate wheels...$ 24.oo.....send ya broke ehE=MC2

[asra]

pjbarsden268@ozemail.com.au. Pete Barsden

[Tim]

Good to hear from you Pete. I know you have considerable expertise on this subject. I know many will be interested.Tim McClure

[asra]

Thanks Pete for that..Mark

[asra]

What Peter has done is elegant and obviously effective, but in my opinion a bit like running a forklift on nitrous!Butterfly was on the right track for a light, simple, relable system, but they stuffed it up by using the wrong resistor. I understand the starter kicks in quite hard, and then winds up slowly, just the opposite to what you want! This is because the 'resistance wire' is thick and of the wrong material. The whole point of the exercise is to get the rotor gently up to a speed where full power can be applied with little impact, lots of fine strands of Nichrome is the way to do it as its resistance doesn't change much as it heats up.John EvansThink logically and do things well, think laterally and do things better.

[asra]

John,Your quote says it all.......................I rest my case.Pete BarsdenPete Barsden

[asra]

Yamaha xv 1000 motorcycles incoperate an overlod slip clutch in there starting system to protect the whole assembly when the motor kicks back or gets a compression lockup.Very small and could easily be put on the end of a starter to give an initial slip or even as a torque limiting device.is even adjustable by shimming.E=MC2

[asra]

That sounds promising Mark! My main criticism of the motocycle starter is the problem of getting the reduction after its output gear, it certainly can be done, I did it, but it was awkward.Another promising approach one of the posters came up with was to use the speed control trigger mechanism out of a 12 or 14 volt battery drill, he says it pulls about 70 amps, which lines up with what we found with the motorcycle starter.Hmmm, I wonder how long it would last and how the ratios would work out if you just put the drill up there, say driving throgh a single stage of bicycle chain and sprockets. If you're not looking for the absolute max in rotor rpm that sort of wattage is OK.John EvansThink logically and do things well, think laterally and do things better.

[asra]

John and Albert,Where do you get these Yamaha starters, and what do they cost?Not much hope of a used one in the outback I guess.Fish

[asra]

G'Day Alan, any of the motorcycle wreckers should be able to help you over the phone. The one for the XV 1000 sounds particularly interesting, but why don't you try your drill idea? Supercheap have them for about $25, I think the battery may not be the greatest, but you can run it off the normal battery.John EvansThink logically and do things well, think laterally and do things better.

[NiqueNaque]

The solution to this problem really is quite simple.

[asra]

If that is so Nick. Please tell us!!!!!Aussie Paul. []www.firebirdgyros.com