Gyro flying school???

[birdy]

I take it your a supporter of the idea Mike.[^]The extremely valid comments made by others that Gyros are inherently going to crash or be much less safe than an Ultralight/GA/Balloon or other aviation field must be addressed urgently,The only thing ' inherant' bout gyros crash'n is the simple fact that pilots crash em[!], they don't have to crash, and they wont crash by emselves.Proper, dedicated instruction, with no time restraints, will go a long way to solving this 'inherant' crash'n problem, and help clear up sum of the myths bout gyros.If sumone is quiz'n me bout the wots and wherefores of gyros, two things i'll say is " a gyro is the safest flyn machine to crash if you must" and " gyros are the safest flyn machine to cross tiger country, coz theyre are the safest if the noise stops".[ a couple of ' factual' posters like that in the hanger will get people thinkn along faverable lines.]Also, BH was my personal choise too, coz of its relitively low population dencity, open cleare country[ well, thats wot i saw hwen i was there], better and more predictable air and generaly central to the Oz population.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[Michael]

Has everyone forgotten that we have a highly experienced senior instructor who is willing to fly anywhere and train at a moderate cost - who has been banned by ASRA for 12 months? The ban had nothing to do with his ability to train as Allan Wardill admitted. As I said to ASRA at the time, this was like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The only full time trainer in Australia!That is history now and not worth debating further - its all been said before.On the subject of the availablity of factory made aircraft the Magni is an obvious example.Yes, they are expensive but you get what you pay for. The engine alone, a Rotax 914 Turbo has a replacement value of $39,000 here. Due to the immense amount of time invested in design and manufacture the safety record is almost unblemished with over 400 flying. Yes, I'm obsessed with Magni and have taken on the Australian agency so if you think I'm biased, you're dead right!Hopefully Firebird will be available fully assembled too.Michael.

[birdy]

..................... nah, i'll shudup.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[Des Garvin]

People, what is the age of our ASRA instructoring personel? My view of the instructors I know of, most are into their fiftys or older. So why is this so? Why is it that some of our instructors are only in their mid thirtys. Could it be because the younger ones lack the confidence to step up to the challenge? Or could it be that at the younger age gyros are not so apearling? Your answers to this are going to be very interesting.[8D]Come on birdy your coments are worth more than that. Everyone knows you are wise when they look at who posted and see the number of 1308 posts here. Come on we all believe in ya [].What you focus on grows. Des Gravin

[asra]

Mr Loader once again makes excellent comments. He is right, this is a refreshing change. The RAA however, were not always like they are now. When I joined in 1992 the simiarities between the AUF magazine then and the ASRA forum now are uncanny. The personallity clashes, infighting, two bob experts, opinions passed off as fact, etc, etc. Gradually, however, everyone got sick of it and things started to change. Gradually people were more positive and helpful. Members acted more like pilots, then the rules started to get better. Then people started to look at ultralights in a different way. The membership started to grow, quickly. Then there were more and better aircraft and engines and stuff to choose from. As things got better, things got better. Where did the negative people go? I dont really know. I think they just gradually went away because they didn't fit in any more. This is what I ment by "If we build it, they will come". I truly believe that we need to get our house in order first, then the rest will be so much easier. My point is, I believe there is lots of money out there for instructors, but there is also lots of competition for that dollar. Someone can click on this website because they are curious about Gyros, then just as quickly click over to jet ski's if they don't like what they see here. I don't think anyone will get rich from instructing, however I think it certainly could be a "nice little earner" if done right.Birdy, thank you very much for all you are trying to do. Your posting here and on the American forum are a very good thing for the Gyroplane movement.Daryl Patterson

[asra]

Michael, I like the Magni, and love gyro's. If I win Tatts, I will place an order for one right away.But if I only had $75 K to spend, well I'm sorry but I wouldnt buy a Magni, instead the order would go to Jabiru on a J 160.>100 kt cruise.>14 lts/h.>1000 NM range.>Fully enclosed, & heated.>Type certified, and fly away>and includes GST.Must hand it to Jabiru, they finaly got it right.P.S I'm not an agent, or on any commision.(But would like to be !!!)Regards Sam.

[Brian]

Sam, I got to agree with you, once a gyro gets over the 50 K mark then there is no choice in my mind what to own and fly, its horses for courses and the gyro is going to battle as a touring machine in my mind for the basic reason that it is way too slow when comparing then to say a Jabiru and a lot less fun to fly. Yes, Jabiru do have it right !!Michael, yes, we are all very aware of Paul Bruty and yes, he will come to you but he is only one and more are needed. Paul spends a fair bit of time out of the country as well.Brian

[Michael]

True Sam - but you have to like fixed wings!Michael.

[asra]

Even if I wasn't planning to buy a Firebird I would still only go to Vic, to train with Paul Bruty.Most of the old farts around dont like him but despite that, Paul has battled on for years with dedication and determination and because of this he is recognised and in demand around the world.I have the utmost respect for the man.I have never met him and when I do I might not like him much either,who knows ? But that would not interfere with the training program that he would put me thru, nor would it change my opinion of theFirebird. I dont give a hoot in hell for any of you people that bad mouth him,you know what I think of you.Also, the dickheads sending me private emails telling me what adreadful person he is, have my utmost contempt, and if we ever happento be in the same place at the same time, stay outa me way !I also like the new little Jabiru 160, its cute and at $75,000 incGST fly away, she's great value !I am also rapped in the Magni M22 Taveller.Cheez, where to begin? Me Bro's moving himself and the Mooney down tothe big smoke, so I gotta do something soon !Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.

[MechFx]

Back on the location thread, what about somewhere there is already an infrastructure that supports recreational flying, like Narromine or Temora ? Finding a helpful council must make things a lot easier ..Des, re simulation , I have access to a couple of V8 powered wind machines used for film/Tv shows they have about a 9ft prop dia, and wind speeds around 60 mph. I know there would be vortex problems but maybe some creative mind out there could design a splitter/ straightener that could supply wind to the front of a tethered gyro wide enough to give some effect to the rotor ???Might make for an interesting experiment.Art SpinkGyroNews Editor

[asra]

For those of you who are seriousily thinking about training, Russell Cook will later on this year be travelling around Australia, towing his new gyro and is prepared to undertake training if you want. For further details please refer to the training thread at the r0t0rcraft.com.au web site under their training thread. I'm sure you would be more than welcome on that website.What could be easier than training in a new gyro sporting a EV25, which from all initial reports has lots of grunt. TedStrongly opposed to the retriction of free speech

[Des Garvin]

Why has the gyro glider seemed to have lost its appeal as a training tool in many areas? Iknow of one that does not get use, Why?I know of a couple that are being used by 2 clubs, what are the drawbacks with them. Just wondering.What you focus on grows. Des Gravin

[birdy]

Hmmmmm........... been a bit of discusion, but not wot id call enthusiasm.Ya got a bolke ere who's prepared to make a substantial financial contrabution, and theres not much in the way of sugestions for how, where, who or wot with.Surely theres an instructer or two interested, a location thats reasonable, or even some sugestions on how to get it started.I need sumone to grab the bit and go. Or was i wrong in think'n that startup cost was the only thing stopp'n it happenin?Maybe its coz we'er alota talkers.Are we serious bout the instruction problem?If i could i would, but as it is, all i can do is help.Ignorance is bliss............but only till you realise you were.You can always get the answer you want, if you ask enough experts.

[asra]

You have planted a seed Birdy, and you may have to give it a little time to germinate. We are giving it serious consideration but these things do take time. Personally i would locate any operations along the south east seaboard as that is where Australia's main population is based and that is what you are aiming the campaign at. You not only want to train pilots but you want the masses to see them up and flying so as to legitimise them. The actual township is also important. Places like Temora in NSW have found that encouraging aviation is good for the area so have been very positive. Then the weather. Some places are better than others. Ballarat has traditionally been a focus for gyros in Victoria but my experience is the area is generally unsuitable because of the cold winters and unpredictable weather patterns.Pete

[asra]

David,As pete said, you've sown some seeds. Someone who was thinking along those lines now has another option. I too will "put in" for the right proposal. But it needs some thought. Feasibility study based on population, market, etc. If I lived in WA or Qld, I wouldn't drive past the instructors they already have to go somewhere else. And what audience are we pitching at? Theres gonna be a limit to the number of new RAF/$60-70K flyers starting from fresh, when a used 2 seater trike can be had for $20K+. It's the trike fype flyers that we are targetting. Most of the population is centred Sydney-Melb. Certainly a shortage of instructors south of sydney. I also see a need to have available single seaters for hire to solo in. Most fly either rotax or sub based machine. One of each to suit the students preference. Different prop/blade configs for the trainer to mimic popular gyro performance. Anyone been to Farrington (sp?) and know how that works? All of this has probably been discussed. The right person needs business skills as well as teaching and flying skills. Won't do the movement any good if it goes **** up in no time. The bloke who jumps up and says "I'll do it! Send money" probably aint the bloke we want. I don't see (initially, anyway) that someone will pay off a mortgage, raise kids and universitify them, and save for his retirement out of a fledgling gyro school. That might limit it to a bit older bloke who has made his way in life, and who is looking fo something "a bit quieter" to do. The opportunities are limitless, once establishment and acceptance have been overcome. If this thread prompts someone to get out a pencil and paper and do a few sums based on the knowledge that there is some financial backing available, then it will have been more than worthwhile. It might be a city based flyer considering a "tree-change". It might take 6 months for him to surface. Shut-up Pete, and keep looking for those instruments.