Gyro flying school???

[wflaks]

MitchGreat to see some positive input from the members.Let see some more positives, how can we help A.S.R.A.wALTER

[bones]

Its a touchy subject this one, the instructors need help to get more, in order to be able to GIVE more..I also say that the board on a whole has done well, however it is through this type of discussion, that the changes that are,I believe so badly needed for the continuation of the sport, are brought to the surface, discussed, a decision, or theories for a decision are worked through in order to get the best out come for all of us.I said earlier that the training school idea would fail if started, what i didnt put in that phrase was, i believe it would fail in the current form, or with out changes..Walter said "how can we help A.S.R.A." now its a case of how can we help ourselves, as we all are ASRA...r0t0rcraft.com.au

[Adrian S]

Guys,There are many issues to starting a flying school and most of the issues come from the following-A. A commercial operation needs to make a profit to justify the investment or it needs to be done by an individual who see's it as a desirable life style that can be run on a break even basis. When you do the numbers it works out that there is not enough continuity in customer demand to make a profit. Talk to the guys who have tried it and they all will tell you it was a labour of love! Talk to their spouses and they will tell you it cost them money ! B. Based on previous history and the numbers the only viable way to do it is for a club to fund the construction & maint of a 2 seat gyro and pay a small salary to the instructors. This way the Instructors dont need to make a risky capital investment and they still get a small monetry return for the effort of instructing. This still means that the student needs to pay a commercial rate for the gyro otherwise the club will go broke. This approach is not new as our brothers involved in gliding have been doing this way for decades.Here in the West we have been well looked after for a number of years because we have had access to instructors who saw their gyro operation as a life style. Unfortunatly this has come to an end as Albert G lost his 2 seater in an accident & fire last year. He just cant afford to fund the build of another at his stage in life. So here in the West we are trying to do something about the lack of a 2 seat trainer. Peter Barsden & myself and other members of the WA Superlight Aircraft Club are building a 2 seat machine to be used as a club trainer here at Bindoon WA .So far the club has been able to "scrounge" up most things but we are short of a engine + redrive. Our budget is tight so if any of you out there have something for a reasonable price give me a call.We are looking for something around 100hp+ and 4 stroke if it needs work that is ok. Guys dont just talk about the problem get together and implement a plan to solve it. I suspect that each state/region in Australia will need to tailor their solution around their respective situations. ASRA is only a collective of members who can help to facilitate and regulate they will never be the total solution - commited individuals and teams will make it happen.Thanks,AdrianMob 0427094552

[asra]

Wal and Greg,I would suggest that you read my post again, read what I have actually said.All the bestPete Barsden

[Greg Mitchell]

Hey Pete, 'grow the balls' and 'grow some balls' I aint splitting hairs with you, all translates the same to me. My comments stand Pete. This is a members forum, a place to try and get things sorted, learn some stuff and one day God willing with Instructors available, the new guys get to fly.Great post Adrian and to you, Pete and all involved well done and continued success and enthusiasm. This process is the way some of the gyro chapters in the US have gone. Larry Neals involvement in one such project at Bridport Texas, as an example.And at the risk of repeating myself, I have already agreed this is historically the better option for larger clubs. Not so for many other groups around the country.However, I believe we are not considering a very important part of the picture. Birdy's Offer!Birdy's offer to financially assist in the setting up of a training school should be considered by minds far more advanced than mine. Truely, some of you out there with the numbers 'nouse' could be making suggestions/recommendations to ASRA Board on how a 'JOINT PROJECT' might proceed. How it might be partially funded as the ASRA recognised and endorsed school if fixed location.How bloody often does a bloke come along that says, hey here is some buck, some substantial bucks to start a school. Get it together, the dosh is there.Joint Project...Birdy's Donation, ASRA Board, Instructor Candidates interested in said operation and the Membership.Lets run a poll, elect a Project Manager. That person picks a small team from other candiates, perhaps, I dont know. What I do know, is ASRA, US, WE should be negotiating with Birdy right now at a business level.Undoubtedly, such a process would need to be accessed by all, with the processes' in place to allow all to input if they so desire, or not. Of course this process may raise some other issues, such as Wal highlighted earlier on and there may well be a need to address some of those in a way that displeases some...but hey, this is a members association...ASRA.I believe Birdy's generous offer is to good to let slide and presents the perfect opportunity to source, locate and place a training school in the best place, with the right Instructor/Instructors..(a bloke's gotta have a day off) and with an ongoing connection to the Members and the Board. This school location could hold the Nats every second year, this gives other states a taste and up the entry fees and raffles ect to make the 'meet' financially viable, putting money back into the training school. Members putting back in to the system. The Board would need to do the same..financially, might mean tightening the belt a little, all of which has been mentioned previously by others. This may make being a board member for some far less attractive, invariably others will take up positions.The fact that there may be a ASRA recognised and endorsed training facility, should not diminish the local grass roots, building and training programs that pop up as these are already, recognised and endorsed through ASRA processes'. To conclude, history can teach us valuable lessons and contrary to popular belief it does not always repeat itself.The future for us as ASRA maybe to take the 'bull by the horns' and do something different for a change. Get some new blood pumping through the system and not be daunted by the road ahead.Lets take a leaf out of the book, of the boys from the West but do it on a bigger scale. Birdy's offer puts us ahead of the game...PLAY BALL![8][8D]Mitch.Hey Birdy Thanks very much for your generous offer, I hope it eventuates that history will remember, because of what grows from it.www.thebutterflyllc.comA thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all. - Friedrich Nietzsche

[asra]

Greg, Read my post again, and try not to read things into it that are not there, I stand by it, word for word, all the best.Pete Barsden

[Greg Mitchell]

Pete, if I kept taking your advice and re-reading every one of your post, I'd never get to any of the others. All the best to you to Pete. Mitch.www.thebutterflyllc.comA thinker sees his own actions as experiments and questions--as attempts to find out something. Success and failure are for him answers above all. - Friedrich Nietzsche

[asra]

Greg,Great, however you only have to understand the first one, all the best.Pete Barsden

[MechFx]

I went to the Oaks (SW of Sydney) flying club on yesterday for a visit.The flying school there was charging $50 for a TIF, $115 for a flying lesson and $95 for straight out hire of a Jabiru. I dont understand how they can offer prices this cheap. But it did get me thinking. Gyros and ultralights are like apples and oranges, but are they in competition for the same students ?After a bit of thought I think the answer is no. There seems to be a lot of focus on the Gyro being a great cross country machine and that they can be so stable they can fly with your hands off...Sounds like a description of a Jabiru to me.In the search for students why try and sell an apple to someone looking for an orange ?Instead, if the advertising or promotion of Gyros was more focused on the amazing capabilities that is already proven , like short field performance(especially landings), extreme manoeuvrability (mustering) , ease of towing and set-up (ever tried to set up a trike wing on your own ?) and the absolute fun of these machines, then I think it would be a lot easier to justify and market a more reasonable (higher) price for training and purchase.This higher price would then surely make it a bit more viable for instructors to be able to make closer to a decent living out of training and/or manufacturing. I'd like to point out that I'm not a pilot and dont own a Gyro, so that puts me in the prospective student class, and that means my dollars are up for grabs at some stage in the future. I might just be student number 1 for the Birdy inspired Gyro School....I'm following this thread very closely..Art SpinkGyroNews EditorWyangala/Maroubra NSW

[asra]

After years of procrastination, I have decided to put something back into our great sport and will begin training here in Bairndale in the next couple of months. My remaining hurdle is to get my two seat gyro going and was wanting some advice on the foot pedals. I have rebuilt a side by side two seater powered by a 150 hp Suburu. Which is oh so very close to being ready. All I need now is to get the duel pedals fitted to replace a single set of cast aluminium ones. I checked out a few two seaters at Lameroo the weekend before last and have attached a copy of a pic of the type that will fit my trainer machine. Trouble is I am not a welder and I was wondering if anyone had the ability, time and inclination to take on and do a good job which I am willing to pay for. Time is of the essence.Image Insert: 70.43 KB(image resized by Admin)PeteBairnsdale,Vic.

[Des Garvin]

Pete, That looks a lot like a Rosco set up! What do you say Tim.What you focus on grows. Des Gravin

[Tim]

Rosco's are all aluminium pedal setups and he does sell complete units. They have been tested to pass the two seat standards. I will see if I can get a photo.Tim McClure

[asra]

quote:Originally posted by TimRosco's are all aluminium pedal setups and he does sell complete units. They have been tested to pass the two seat standards. I will see if I can get a photo.Tim McClureThis is the best I have got at the moment.Aussie Paul.[]Image Insert: 78.25 KB(Image resized by Admin)www.firebirdgyros.com

[asra]

Thanks guys. I will get onto Rosco and order a set.PeteBairnsdale,Vic.

[asra]

G,day Cuz.Have you got any pics of that side by side trainer ?Tar.Robert DunnMackay. Qld.Growing old is good while it lasts.